started 80 years ago in Austria and Germany.
On Sep 6, 11:44 am, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> great response!
>
> we're on the same page
>
> I don't have a problem with zionists either ... as long as their
> belief in jewish myths doesn't effect US ME policy.
>
> On Sep 6, 8:43 am, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hey PlainOl'!
>
> > As we have discussed previously, I have no problem with Zionism. None,
> > nada. If Jews (or anyone for that matter) want to go prop up in the
> > desert, more power to them.
>
> > My concerns are similar to yours however. I want the allegiance question
> > resolved with anyone who chooses to "Zionate". We cannot have politicians
> > (or anyone for that matter) put the welfare of Israel ahead of this
> > Nation's interests, and we have seen this happen before, (*See* The Senator
> > From Tel Aviv, Joe Liebermann)
>
> > I do believe that Israel is an ally of the United States, and should be
> > treated accordingly. There is a distinction between placing Israel's
> > interests ahead of our own. Just as important, it troubles me that we can
> > support some of Israel's policies, when they are clearly in conflict with
> > our own interests.
>
> > On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 12:01 AM, plainolamerican
> > <plainolameri...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > > that you won't accept that the US interventionist policy is a complete
> > > failure and supports israel is evidence that you just might be a
> > > zionist
> > > how's that working for ya?
> > > ever had a zionist minister preside over a dead relative who served in
> > > the middle east?
>
> > > On Sep 5, 9:30 am, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 9:09 AM, plainolamerican
> > > > <plainolameri...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > > > > neoconservatives remain a large part of the foreign-policy
> > > > > establishment that will wind up staffing any future Republican
> > > > > administration
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Neoconservatism is better described in general as a complex
> > > > > interlocking professional and family network centered around Jewish
> > > > > publicists and organizers flexibly deployed to recruit the sympathies
> > > > > of both Jews and non-Jews in harnessing the wealth and power of the
> > > > > United States in the service of Israel. As such, neoconservatism
> > > > > should be considered a semicovert branch of the massive and highly
> > > > > effective pro-Israel lobby, which includes organizations like the
> > > > > America Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)—the most powerful
> > > > > lobbying group in Washington—and the Zionist Organization of America
> > > > > (ZOA). Indeed, as discussed below, prominent neoconservatives have
> > > > > been associated with such overtly pro-Israel organizations as the
> > > > > Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA), the Washington
> > > > > Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP), and ZOA.
>
> > > > > On Sep 4, 6:37 pm, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> > > > > > Grand Old PeaceniksWill austerity turn Republicans away from war?By
> > > W.
> > > > > James Antle III | August 31, 2011
> > > > > > Fairly or not, Mitt Romney's approach to national security during the
> > > > > 2008 presidential race can be captured by a single phrase: "Double
> > > > > Guantanamo." When asked about the U.S. prison camp for terror suspects,
> > > the
> > > > > eager-to-please former Massachusetts governor's first instinct was to
> > > > > propose super-sizing it like a McDonald's value meal for hungry
> > > Republican
> > > > > primary voters.
> > > > > > That was when Romney was trying to compete with John McCain and Rudy
> > > > > Giuliani, both more natural national-security hawks than he. But even
> > > as he
> > > > > launched his second campaign in 2010 with the release of his bookNo
> > > Apology:
> > > > > The Case for American Greatness, Romney endorsed in its pages what
> > > William
> > > > > Kristol and Robert Kagan described in a 1996Foreign Affairsessay as
> > > > > "benevolent global hegemony"the idea that if the United States is not
> > > the
> > > > > world's dominant military and ideological power, the void will be
> > > filled by
> > > > > countries advancing values that are much worse for peace and human
> > > freedom.
> > > > > > So it was surprising when at a June GOP candidates' debate in New
> > > > > Hampshire, Romney said of the war in Afghanistan, "It's time for to us
> > > bring
> > > > > our troops home as soon as we possibly can." With this pale imitation
> > > of
> > > > > "Come home, America," Romney found himself drawn into a critique by his
> > > > > former rival McCain and other hawks that the Republican Party was
> > > becoming
> > > > > too "isolationist."
> > > > > > "There's always been an isolation strain in the Republican Party,
> > > that
> > > > > Pat Buchanan wing of our party," McCain lamented, irritated by
> > > Republican
> > > > > diffidence over Afghanistan and Libya. "But now it seems to have moved
> > > more
> > > > > center stage, so to speak."
> > > > > > McCain's ally, South Carolina Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham,
> > > concurred.
> > > > > He worried to theHillthat it "doesn't take long before the [GOP] finds
> > > a
> > > > > war-weary nation and exploits it." He fretted about an alliance between
> > > Ron
> > > > > Paul on the "far right" and Dennis Kucinich on the "far left," though
> > > he was
> > > > > apparently unbothered by a left-right interventionist coalition
> > > consisting
> > > > > of himself, McCain, John Kerry, and Hillary Clinton.
> > > > > > Some of this was overblown, even by McCain and Graham's
> > > > > characteristically elastic definition of isolationism. TheWeekly
> > > Standard's
> > > > > Stephen Hayes admitted on Fox News that Romney's mild Afghanistan
> > > comment
> > > > > "had Republican hawks, policy analysts emailing one another, what does
> > > he
> > > > > mean? Is he calling for immediate withdrawal?" But Hayes reassured
> > > viewers
> > > > > at home, "I talked to people who are familiar with his thinking. And
> > > they
> > > > > said no, look, he misspoke. That's not what he intended to say."
> > > > > > TheWashington Post's Jennifer Rubin, quick to spy "unseriousness" in
> > > the
> > > > > form of incipient dovishness upon the part of Republican aspirantslike
> > > such
> > > > > notorious McGovernites as Mitch Daniels and Haley Barbourabsolved
> > > Romney of
> > > > > any foreign-policy heterodoxy. While Rubin was initially concerned that
> > > "the
> > > > > entire GOP field was now hopping on the isolationist bandwagon in some
> > > odd
> > > > > attempt to scrounge votes from the Ron Paul contingent," Romney and Tim
> > > > > Pawlenty ultimately passed her "strong foreign policy" test. (As later
> > > did
> > > > > Michele Bachmann, who "firmly planted herself at the grown-ups' table"
> > > by
> > > > > telling theWeekly Standardwe must "stay the course" in Afghanistan.)
> > > > > > Pawlenty had taken to lecturing the rest of the Republican field
> > > about
> > > > > their disturbing "move more towards isolationism," as he toldPolitico.
> > > > > Meanwhile, Romney foreign-policy adviser Mitchell Reiss was quick to
> > > tell
> > > > > Rubin that Romney felt the United States was "under-investing" in
> > > national
> > > > > defense.
> > > > > > It is nevertheless significant that Romney, his finger ever in search
> > > of
> > > > > the primary voter's pulse, has had to defend himself against the charge
> > > of
> > > > > isolationism. Much of his double-Gitmo chest-beating last time around
> > > was
> > > > > overcompensating for the perception that he wasn't as gung-ho as the
> > > other
> > > > > candidates for George W. Bush's foreign policy. At the time,
> > > conservative
> > > > > journalist David Freddoso pointed out that Romney "is unique among the
> > > > > serious Republican presidential contenders because he has never said he
> > > > > would do [the Iraq War] all over again, and they all have."
> > > > > > In one debate, Romney twice refused to answer when asked if the Iraq
> > > > > invasion was a mistake. He called the question "an unreasonable
> > > > > hypothetical," a "non-sequitur," and even a "null set," as if it simply
> > > did
> > > > > not compute. At another debate he drew McCain's harsh rebuke for saying
> > > the
> > > > > surge was "apparently" working. "Governor, the surge is working,"
> > > McCain
> > > > > snarled. When Romney protested that was what he had just said, McCain
> > > shot
> > > > > back, "Not apparently. It's working."
> > > > > > In theNew Republic, Eli Lake has reported that Romney's
> > > foreign-policy
> > > > > advisers are divided. Lake described Reisswho ironically was the man
> > > > > dispatched to convince Jennifer Rubin of Romney's hawkishnessas a surge
> > > > > skeptic, while Dan Senor, a former spokesman for the Coalition
> > > Provisional
> > > > > Authority in Iraq who later sent a distress signal to Republican hawks
> > > about
> > > > > the dovishness of senate candidate Rand Paul, was pro-surge. Reiss and
> > > Senor
> > > > > still advise Romney today and are similarly at odds over Afghanistan.
> > > > > > Yet Reiss's doubts about Hamid Karzai's Afghan government are a far
> > > cry
> > > > > from mythical isolationism, or even real-world non-interventionism.
> > > Other
> > > > > than Ron Paul and fellow libertarian Gary Johnson, Jon Huntsman is the
> > > only
> > > > > Republican presidential candidate who has come close to calling for a
> > > > > fundamental reevaluation of American foreign policy. But as Lake notes,
> > > "the
> > > > > penny-pinching mood among Republicans" has made GOP leaders "less
> > > inclined
> > > > > to sound the kinds of grandiose and expensive notes about foreign
> > > policy
> > > > > that were considered par for the course in 2008."
> > > > > > Nowhere was that clearer than in this summer's debt-ceiling battle.
> > > In
> > > > > their eagerness to identify spending reductions that would offset an
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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