Wednesday, October 20, 2010

Libertarians at the Jon Stewart/Stephen Colbert Rally





Like prior events, our plan is to hand out flyers and bumper stickers in support of the LP. All volunteers will receive a Libertarian Party T-shirt, an LP backpack, and materials to distribute to the crowd.

We will be meeting in front of the National Museum of Natural History at 9:00AM. The easiest way to get there is by getting off at the Smithsonian metro stop on the blue/orange line.

Please let me know if you plan on attending so we will have enough supplies for everyone. You can also RSVP on facebook here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=168703926475916&...

For questions or concerns, please e-mail me (Kyle Hartz) at Kyle@lp.org




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what's new

The New Republican Right

By Dick Morris

A fundamental change is gripping the Republican grass roots as they animate the GOP surge to a major victory in the 2010 elections. No longer do evangelical or social issues dominate the Republican ground troops. Now economic and fiscal issues prevail. The Tea Party has made the Republican Party safe for libertarians.

There is still a litmus test for admission to the Republican Party. But no longer is it dominated by abortion, guns and gays. Now, keeping the economy free of government regulation, reducing taxation and curbing spending are the chemicals that turn the paper pink.

 RECEIVE NEWS ALERTS

 

It is one of the fundamental planks in the Tea Party platform that the movement does not concern itself with social issues. At the Tea Parties, evangelical pro-lifers rub shoulders happily with gay libertarians. They are united by their anger at Obama's economic policies, fear of his deficits and horror at his looming tax increases. Obama's agenda has effectively removed the blocks that stopped tens of millions of social moderates from joining the GOP.

As a byproduct of this sea change in the Republican Party, GOP grassroots activists are no longer just concentrated in the South. They are spread all throughout the nation, as prominent in Ohio as in Alabama, in New York as in Georgia, in California as in Nevada.

The Tea Party's focus on fiscal and economic issues finds deep resonance among voters of all stripes, united as they are in economic hardship and disappointed as they all are by Obama's economic program. This antipathy to federal policies is paving the way for vast Republican inroads in normally solid Democratic turf like New York state, Massachusetts, California and Washington state.

Fighting over abortion has become a cottage industry in America. As useful to the left as to the right, both camps have used the issue for 30 years to demand orthodoxy of their constituents and fidelity from their electorates. No longer does the pro-life/pro-choice debate hold voters in blue states hostage to the Democratic Party, bound and determined to swallow as much in regulation and taxation as their liberal candidates offer if only to protect Roe v. Wade. Nor does it hypnotize Southern or rural conservatives who grant their Blue Dog congressmen a pass on Election Day as long as they are right on life, guns and gays. Now these Blue Dogs are paying the price for their betrayal of fiscal conservatism and find that they can no longer assuage their angered base by way of ads showing them with firearms. While social concerns still exist and are held deeply throughout the country, economic and fiscal issues have gripped the hearts and minds of Republican voters and candidates, pushing the social questions aside.

This preference for economic and fiscal questions over social issues is not a top-down decision of the Tea Party leadership. There really is no Tea Party leadership. Those who conduct its affairs are mere coordinators of local groups where the real power lies. The entire affair is a grass roots-dominated movement. I was shocked to learn that the teapartypatriots.org umbrella group, to which more than 2,800 local affiliates belong, has a total payroll of $50,000 per month, with only seven paid staff members, some of them low-level at that. This group, which embraces more than half of the self-described Tea Party groups in the U.S., leaves up to each local organization how to proceed and what to do. It is a bottom-up movement.

The determination to focus on fiscal and economic issues, to the exclusion of social questions, wells up from below as individual members vent their concerns over ObamaCare, stimulus spending and cap-and-trade legislation. It is around opposition to Obama's agenda, not Roe v. Wade, that the movement is organized. It is a new day on the Republican right.

Morris, a former political adviser to Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and President Bill Clinton, is the author of "Outrage." To get all of Dick Morris's and Eileen McGann's columns for free by email, go towww.dickmorris.com.

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Re: Socialism For Dummies or: Why Obama Isn't a Communist, Marxist, or Socialist

I was quoting Keith's article, Dick.


On 10/20/10, dick <rhomp2002@earthlink.net> wrote:
> You lost it all in the first sentence. Republicans are not the ones who
> are trying to control. The Democrats attempt to rule in a fair
> Democracy? Since when. Democrats try to control you so that you have
> to accept their choice or you lose your job, your insurance, your home,
> your family, access to the education you want - no end to the
> controlling that the Democrats attempt. Your whole posting here is an
> absolute lie. You Dems even want to control how people retire!!
>
> On 10/20/2010 02:22 PM, Tommy News wrote:
>> So, then in other words,
>> Republicans, whose purpose is to control, are like Facists. Their
>> purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others
>> among the people.
>>
>> Democrats, whose purpose is to rule In a fair Democracy, and any group
>> of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the
>> unlimited power of The Majority, and therefore must keep the
>> Republicans from taking control of the government again in order to
>> protect themselves from unlimited power of facist Republicans.
>>
>> Corporate greed, absolute control, and absoulute power is Republican.
>>
>> Justice, well being, liberty, the persuit of happiness, and fair
>> representation by and for individuals is Democratic.
>>
>> Gotta love it.
>>
>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone following this thread can see you are dodging the question.
>>>
>>> You have spent a considerable amount of time doing so.
>>>
>>> So based on your refusal to answer the question, and, based on your
>>> assertion that it was a baited question, I can only conclude that you
>>> are a closet socialist.
>>>
>>> On 10/20/2010 10:47 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, I am not.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Of course you're dodging the question.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not like I was asking you for a 15-page dissertation on your
>>>>> beliefs. I simply asked you to chose between two brief descriptions of
>>>>> two types of governments.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:24 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not dodging the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I said that it is a dumb and baited question and I stand buy that
>>>>>> statement.
>>>>>> I believe in Democracy. I am an American.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you dodging the question, Tommy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to a political forum. How is asking which of two
>>>>>>> systems of government you think we should follow being silly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that you understand it is a baited question leads me to
>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> you know you are a socialist. You're just afraid to admit it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or, perhaps - since you push all the collectivism crap on us - you
>>>>>>> prefer being called a collectivist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Collectivist*, n. An advocate of collectivism. -- a. Relating
>>>>>>> to,
>>>>>>> or characteristic of, collectivism.*
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Collectivism*, n. The doctrine that land and capital should
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> owned by society collectively or as a whole; communism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:07 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would you even ask such a silly, baited, and officiously
>>>>>>>> offensive
>>>>>>>> question?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not a Marxist, Socialist, or Communist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Centrist Liberals, Democrats, and President Obama are not either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Should have read:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tommy,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Which one of the following systems of government do you believe we
>>>>>>>>>> should follow?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. A system in which the means of production and
>>>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> privately or corporately owned and development is
>>>>>>>>>> proportionate
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a
>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. A system of social organization in which the means of
>>>>>>>>>> producing
>>>>>>>>>> and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a
>>>>>>>>>> centralized
>>>>>>>>>> government that often plans and controls the economy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 9:36 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that you do not know what Marxism is, Keith, as you
>>>>>>>>>>> continually and falsely call Democrats, Centrist liberals,
>>>>>>>>>>> Progressives, and President Obama Marxists, which they are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is why I sent this piece, to enlighten you, if that is
>>>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Liberals and Democrats are NOT Marxists, Socialists, or
>>>>>>>>>>> Communists.
>>>>>>>>>>> Using these false slurs over and over again is offensive and
>>>>>>>>>>> repetitive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that those who slander and disrespect the President are
>>>>>>>>>>> anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Keith In Tampa<keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those who don't comprehend or understand what Marxism,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Socialism,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitalism, etc., mean, and somehow believe that it is "hate
>>>>>>>>>>>> speech"
>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>> calling an individual a "Socialist"; because he advocates a
>>>>>>>>>>>> socialistic
>>>>>>>>>>>> political and economic system over a capitalistic, free market
>>>>>>>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to say that they are stupid....Far from it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of respect for these that are ignorant, or Anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> dangerous to our Nation. I have come to the conclusion that
>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>> fall into one of two categories:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (A) *e.g.;* Most of them are ill informed and not well read.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep up with current events, other than to watch liberal, biased
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>> media, or read and follow far left slanted web sites, never
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> to comprehend why or how any specific situation or came to be,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> root
>>>>>>>>>>>> cause, genesis or motivation of any particular issue. They tend
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are the only ones that are compassionate, failing to
>>>>>>>>>>>> realize
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is statistically proven in fact, that those who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> conservative
>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute far more money& resources to charitable causes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Further,
>>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>>> just as important!) these same individuals don't have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> our history; they fail to understand or comprehend the
>>>>>>>>>>>> principals
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> tenets
>>>>>>>>>>>> that made the United States the greatest Nation-State in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> World,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bar
>>>>>>>>>>>> none. In general, these people reject the notion that our
>>>>>>>>>>>> founding
>>>>>>>>>>>> fathers
>>>>>>>>>>>> were influenced by Christian principals and tenets, but they do
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough history that they would very much like to revise this one
>>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect. Thus their lack of understanding and reasoning; or,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (B) They are literally Anti-Americans, and they want to see the
>>>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>>>> States become equal to or consistent with a third world or
>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth
>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nation-State.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is literally no other option.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The point being, is that ALL of these folks are hypocritical,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> filled
>>>>>>>>>>>> with hate. When confronted with truth, logic, or just basic
>>>>>>>>>>>> facts,
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> can resort to is slinging out hate filled smear, and the typical
>>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>>> left,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Socialist-Elitist talking points that have been generated by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>>>>>>> Soros' funded foundations, media organizations and social
>>>>>>>>>>>> networks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>>> they can do, is attack the messenger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Tommy
>>>>>>>>>>>> News<tommysnews@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thiose who use words as clubs are misguided bullies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For options& help
>>>>>>>>>>>> seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The
>>>>>>>>>> Federal
>>>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is
>>>>>>>>>> superior
>>>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>> Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>> Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html
>>>>>>>>>> <%20http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The
>>>>>>>>> Federal
>>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>> Government*
>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>
>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>> happening. What
>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>> public relations."
>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>
>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>
>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>
>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>> Government*
>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>
>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>
>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>> governed are weak.*
>>>
>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>> happening. What
>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>> public relations."
>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>
>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>> cannot be."
>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>
>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.


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Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy

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Re: Socialism For Dummies or: Why Obama Isn't a Communist, Marxist, or Socialist

You lost it all in the first sentence. Republicans are not the ones who
are trying to control. The Democrats attempt to rule in a fair
Democracy? Since when. Democrats try to control you so that you have
to accept their choice or you lose your job, your insurance, your home,
your family, access to the education you want - no end to the
controlling that the Democrats attempt. Your whole posting here is an
absolute lie. You Dems even want to control how people retire!!

On 10/20/2010 02:22 PM, Tommy News wrote:
> So, then in other words,
> Republicans, whose purpose is to control, are like Facists. Their
> purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others
> among the people.
>
> Democrats, whose purpose is to rule In a fair Democracy, and any group
> of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the
> unlimited power of The Majority, and therefore must keep the
> Republicans from taking control of the government again in order to
> protect themselves from unlimited power of facist Republicans.
>
> Corporate greed, absolute control, and absoulute power is Republican.
>
> Justice, well being, liberty, the persuit of happiness, and fair
> representation by and for individuals is Democratic.
>
> Gotta love it.
>
> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>
>> Anyone following this thread can see you are dodging the question.
>>
>> You have spent a considerable amount of time doing so.
>>
>> So based on your refusal to answer the question, and, based on your
>> assertion that it was a baited question, I can only conclude that you
>> are a closet socialist.
>>
>> On 10/20/2010 10:47 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>
>>> No, I am not.
>>>
>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course you're dodging the question.
>>>>
>>>> It's not like I was asking you for a 15-page dissertation on your
>>>> beliefs. I simply asked you to chose between two brief descriptions of
>>>> two types of governments.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:24 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am not dodging the question.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I said that it is a dumb and baited question and I stand buy that
>>>>> statement.
>>>>> I believe in Democracy. I am an American.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you dodging the question, Tommy?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to a political forum. How is asking which of two
>>>>>> systems of government you think we should follow being silly?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that you understand it is a baited question leads me to
>>>>>> believe
>>>>>> you know you are a socialist. You're just afraid to admit it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or, perhaps - since you push all the collectivism crap on us - you
>>>>>> prefer being called a collectivist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Collectivist*, n. An advocate of collectivism. -- a. Relating
>>>>>> to,
>>>>>> or characteristic of, collectivism.*
>>>>>> *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Collectivism*, n. The doctrine that land and capital should be
>>>>>> owned by society collectively or as a whole; communism.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:07 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would you even ask such a silly, baited, and officiously offensive
>>>>>>> question?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not a Marxist, Socialist, or Communist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Centrist Liberals, Democrats, and President Obama are not either.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Should have read:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tommy,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which one of the following systems of government do you believe we
>>>>>>>>> should follow?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 1. A system in which the means of production and distribution
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> privately or corporately owned and development is
>>>>>>>>> proportionate
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free
>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2. A system of social organization in which the means of
>>>>>>>>> producing
>>>>>>>>> and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a
>>>>>>>>> centralized
>>>>>>>>> government that often plans and controls the economy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 9:36 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It appears that you do not know what Marxism is, Keith, as you
>>>>>>>>>> continually and falsely call Democrats, Centrist liberals,
>>>>>>>>>> Progressives, and President Obama Marxists, which they are not.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is why I sent this piece, to enlighten you, if that is
>>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Liberals and Democrats are NOT Marxists, Socialists, or Communists.
>>>>>>>>>> Using these false slurs over and over again is offensive and
>>>>>>>>>> repetitive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe that those who slander and disrespect the President are
>>>>>>>>>> anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Keith In Tampa<keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Those who don't comprehend or understand what Marxism, Socialism,
>>>>>>>>>>> Capitalism, etc., mean, and somehow believe that it is "hate
>>>>>>>>>>> speech"
>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>> calling an individual a "Socialist"; because he advocates a
>>>>>>>>>>> socialistic
>>>>>>>>>>> political and economic system over a capitalistic, free market
>>>>>>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to say that they are stupid....Far from it.
>>>>>>>>>>> Actually,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>> lot of respect for these that are ignorant, or Anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> dangerous to our Nation. I have come to the conclusion that
>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>> fall into one of two categories:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (A) *e.g.;* Most of them are ill informed and not well read.
>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>> keep up with current events, other than to watch liberal, biased
>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>> media, or read and follow far left slanted web sites, never
>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>> to comprehend why or how any specific situation or came to be, or
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> root
>>>>>>>>>>> cause, genesis or motivation of any particular issue. They tend
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>> that they are the only ones that are compassionate, failing to
>>>>>>>>>>> realize
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> it is statistically proven in fact, that those who are
>>>>>>>>>>> conservative
>>>>>>>>>>> contribute far more money& resources to charitable causes.
>>>>>>>>>>> Further,
>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>> just as important!) these same individuals don't have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> our history; they fail to understand or comprehend the principals
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> tenets
>>>>>>>>>>> that made the United States the greatest Nation-State in the
>>>>>>>>>>> World,
>>>>>>>>>>> bar
>>>>>>>>>>> none. In general, these people reject the notion that our
>>>>>>>>>>> founding
>>>>>>>>>>> fathers
>>>>>>>>>>> were influenced by Christian principals and tenets, but they do
>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>> enough history that they would very much like to revise this one
>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>> aspect. Thus their lack of understanding and reasoning; or,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> (B) They are literally Anti-Americans, and they want to see the
>>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>>> States become equal to or consistent with a third world or fourth
>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>> Nation-State.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There is literally no other option.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The point being, is that ALL of these folks are hypocritical, and
>>>>>>>>>>> filled
>>>>>>>>>>> with hate. When confronted with truth, logic, or just basic
>>>>>>>>>>> facts,
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> can resort to is slinging out hate filled smear, and the typical
>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>> left,
>>>>>>>>>>> Socialist-Elitist talking points that have been generated by the
>>>>>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>>>>>> Soros' funded foundations, media organizations and social
>>>>>>>>>>> networks.
>>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>> they can do, is attack the messenger.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Tommy News<tommysnews@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Thiose who use words as clubs are misguided bullies.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>> For options& help
>>>>>>>>>>> seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>> Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.
>>>>>>>>> Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html
>>>>>>>>> <%20http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>
>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>> Government*
>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>
>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>
>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>
>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>> happening. What
>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>> public relations."
>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>
>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>>> cannot be."
>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>
>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>
>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>> Government*
>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>
>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>
>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>> governed are weak.*
>>
>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>> happening. What
>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>> public relations."
>> - Marc Stevens
>>
>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>> cannot be."
>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>
>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>
>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>
>
>

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Socialism For Dummies or: Why Obama Isn't a Communist, Marxist, or Socialist

United States
Main article: Republicanism in the United States
A distinct set of definitions for the word republic evolved in the
United States. In common parlance a republic is a state that does not
practice direct democracy but rather has a government indirectly
controlled by the people. In the rest of the world this is known as
representative democracy. This understanding of the term was
originally developed by James Madison, and notably employed in
Federalist Paper No. 10. This meaning was widely adopted early in the
history of the United States, including in Noah Webster's dictionary
of 1828. It was a novel meaning to the term, representative democracy
was not an idea mentioned by Machiavelli and did not exist in the
classical republics.[50]

The term republic does not appear in the Declaration of Independence,
but does appear in Article IV of the Constitution which "guarantee[s]
to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government." What
exactly the writers of the constitution felt this should mean is
uncertain. The Supreme Court, in Luther v. Borden (1849), declared
that the definition of republic was a "political question" in which it
would not intervene. In two later cases, it did establish a basic
definition. In United States v. Cruikshank (1875), the court ruled
that the "equal rights of citizens" were inherent to the idea of
republic. The opinion of the court from In re Duncan[51] (1891) held
that the "right of the people to choose their government" is also part
of the definition. Due to the 1875 and 1891 court decisions
establishing basic definition, in the first version (1892) of the
Pledge of Allegiance, which included the word republic, and like
Article IV which refers to a Republican form of government, the basic
definition of republic is implied and continues to do so in all
subsequent versions, including the present edition, by virtue of its
consistent inclusion.

Beyond these basic definitions the word republic has a number of other
connotations. W. Paul Adams observes that republic is most often used
in the United States as a synonym for state or government, but with
more positive connotations than either of those terms.[52]
Republicanism is often referred to as the founding ideology of the
United States. Traditionally scholars believed this American
republicanism was a derivation of the liberal ideologies of John Locke
and others developed in Europe.

The political philosophy of republicanism initiated by Machiavelli was
thought to have had little impact on the founders of the United
States. In the 1960s and 1970s a revisionist school lead by the likes
of Bernard Bailyn began to argue that republicanism was just as or
even more important than liberalism in the creation of the United
States.[53] This issue is still much disputed and scholars like
Kramnick completely reject this view.[54]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic#United_States

On 10/20/10, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
>
> Republic
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jump to: navigation, search
> For the political ideology, see Republicanism. For other uses, see
> Republic (disambiguation).
>
> This article is part of the
> Politics series
> Forms of government
>
> List of government types
> Anarchy
> Aristocracy
> Communist state
> Confederation
> Corporatism
> Corporatocracy
> Consociationalism
> Demarchy
> Democracy
> Direct
> Representative
> Consensus
> Despotism
> Dictatorship
> Autocracy
> Military/Military junta
> Right-wing
> Authoritarianism
> Totalitarianism
> Ethnic democracy
> Ethnocracy
> Exilarchy
> Fascism
> Federation
> Feudalism
> Gerontocracy
> Kleptocracy
> Kratocracy
> Kritocracy/Kritarchy
> Logocracy
> Magocracy
> Meritocracy
> Geniocracy
> Minarchism/Night Watchman
> Monarchy
> Absolute
> Constitutional/Limited
> Diarchy/Co-Kingship
> Elective
> Noocracy
> Ochlocracy/Mobocracy
> Oligarchy
> Panarchism
> Parliamentary
> Plutocracy
> Presidential
> Puppet state
> Republic
> Crowned
> Capitalist
> Constitutional
> Federal
> Parliamentary
> Dependent head of state
> Federal
> Socialist state
> Sociocracy
> Supranational union
> Technocracy
> Cyberocracy
> Netocracy
> Thalassocracy
> Theocracy
> Islamic state
> Theodemocracy
> Timocracy
> Tribal
> Chiefdom
> Tyranny
> Union
>
> Politics portal
> v • d • e
> A republic is a form of government in which the people or some portion
> thereof retain supreme control over the government,[1][2] and in which
> the head of government is not a monarch.[3][4] The word "republic" is
> derived from the Latin phrase res publica, which can be translated as
> "a public affair".
>
> Both modern and ancient republics vary widely in their ideology and
> composition. The most common definition of a republic is a state
> without a monarch.[3][4] In republics such as the United States and
> France, the executive is legitimized both by a constitution and by
> popular suffrage. In the United States, James Madison defined republic
> in terms of representative democracy as opposed to direct
> democracy,[5] and this usage is still employed by many viewing
> themselves as "democrats".[6] Montesquieu included both democracies,
> where all the people have a share in rule, and aristocracies or
> oligarchies, where only some of the people rule, as republican forms
> of government.[7] In modern political science, republicanism refers to
> a specific ideology that is based on civic virtue and is considered
> distinct from ideologies such as liberalism.[8]
>
> Most often a republic is a sovereign country, but there are also
> subnational entities that are referred to as republics, or which have
> governments that are described as "republican" in nature. For
> instance, Article IV of the Constitution of the United States
> "guarantee[s] to every State in this Union a Republican form of
> Government."[9] The Soviet Union was a single nation composed of
> distinct and nominally sovereign Soviet Socialist Republics.
>
> Niccolò Machiavelli described the governance and foundation of the
> ideal republic in his work Discourses on Livy. These writings, as well
> as those of his contemporaries such as Leonardo Bruni, are the
> foundation of the ideology political scientists call
> republicanism.[10][11]
>
> Contents [hide]
> 1 Origin of the term
> 2 History
> 2.1 Classical republics
> 2.2 Other ancient republics
> 2.3 Mercantile republics
> 2.4 Protestant republics
> 2.5 Liberal republics
> 2.6 Socialist republics
> 2.7 Communist republics
> 2.8 Decolonization
> 2.9 Islamic republics
> 3 Head of state
> 3.1 Structure
> 3.2 Election
> 3.3 Ambiguities
> 4 Types
> 4.1 Sub-national republics
> 5 Other meanings
> 5.1 Political philosophy
> 5.2 United States
> 6 See also
> 7 Notes and references
> 8 Further reading
>
>
> [edit] Origin of the term
> The idea of a republic first appeared in the writings of Italian
> scholars of the Renaissance, most importantly Machiavelli.[10][12]
> Machiavelli divided governments into two types, principalities ruled
> by a monarch and republics ruled by the people.[13][14]
>
> In medieval Northern Italy a number of city states had commune or
> signoria based governments. In the late Middle Ages, writers, such as
> Giovanni Villani, began thinking about the nature of these states and
> the differences from the more common monarchies. These early writers
> used terms such as libertas populi to describe the states. The
> terminology changed in the 15th century as the renewed interest in the
> writings of Ancient Greece and Rome caused writers to prefer using
> classical terminology. To describe non-monarchial states writers, most
> importantly Leonardo Bruni, adopted the Latin word res publica.[15]
>
> While Bruni and Machiavelli used the term to describe the
> non-monarchial states of Northern Italy, res publica has a set of
> interrelated meanings in the original Latin. The term can quite
> literally be translated as "public matter".[16] It was most often used
> by Roman writers to refer to the state and government, even during the
> period of the Roman Empire.[17] The English word commonwealth derives
> from a direct translation of res publica, and its use in English is
> closer to how the Romans used the term res publica.[11]
>
> Today the term republic still most commonly means a system of
> government which derives its power from the people rather than from
> another basis, such as heredity or divine right. This remains the
> primary definition of republic in most contexts.
>
> This bipartite division of government types differs from the classical
> sources, and also the earlier of Machiavelli's own works, which
> divided governments into three types: monarchy, aristocracy, and
> democracy. As Machiavelli wrote, the distinction between an
> aristocracy ruled by a select elite and a democracy ruled by a council
> appointed by the people became cumbersome. By the time Machiavelli
> began work on The Prince, he had decided to refer to both aristocracy
> and democracies as republics.[18]
>
> A further set of meanings for the term comes from the Greek word
> politeia. Cicero, among other Latin writers, translated politeia as
> res publica and it was in turn translated by Renaissance scholars as
> republic. This is not a very accurate translation and the term
> politeia is today usually translated as form of government or regime.
> One continued use of this archaic translation is the title of Plato's
> major work on political science. In Greek it was titled Politeia and
> in English is thus known as The Republic. This naming is preserved for
> historic reasons, but is not considered accurate. Within the text of
> modern translations of The Republic, alternative translations of
> politeia are used.[19]
>
> In English the word first came to prominence during The Protectorate
> era of Oliver Cromwell.[20] While commonwealth was the most common
> term to call the new monarchless state, republic was also in common
> use.[20]
>
> [edit] History
> Until modern times, the form of government for almost all states was
> monarchy.[21][22] During the classical period the Mediterranean region
> was home to several states that are now known as the classical
> republics.
>
> Several republics also developed during the Middle Ages in the
> merchant dominated city states.
>
> [edit] Classical republics
> Main article: classical republic
> The concept of the "republic" itself was not a meaningful concept in
> the classical world.[23] There are number of states of the classical
> era that are today by convention called republics. These include the
> city states of ancient Greece such as Athens and Sparta[24] and the
> Roman Republic. The structure and governance of these states was very
> different from that of any modern republic.[25] There is a debate
> about whether the classical, medieval, and modern republics form a
> historic continuum.[16] JGA Pocock has played a central role,[16]
> arguing that there is a distinct republican tradition that stretches
> from the classical world to the present.[10] Other scholars
> disagree.[16] Paul Rahe, for instance, argues that the classical
> republics had a form of government with few links to those in any
> modern country.[24]
>
>
> A map of the Roman EmpireThe political philosophy of the classical
> republics has had a central influence on republican thought throughout
> the subsequent centuries. A number of classical writers discussed
> forms of government alternative to monarchies and later writers have
> treated these as foundational works on the nature of republics.
> Philosophers and politicians advocating for republics, such as
> Machiavelli, Montesquieu, Adams, and Madison, relied heavily on these
> sources.
>
> Aristotle's Politics discusses various forms of government. One form
> Aristotle named politeia consisted of a mixture of the other forms he
> argued this was one of the ideal forms of government. Polybius
> expanded on many of these ideas, again focusing on the idea of mixed
> government. The most important Roman work in this tradition is
> Cicero's De re publica.
>
> Over time the classical republics were either conquered by empires or
> became one themselves. Most of the Greek republics were annexed to the
> Macedonian Empire of Alexander. The Roman Republic expanded
> dramatically conquering the other states of the Mediterranean that
> could be considered republics, such as Carthaginian Republic. The
> Roman Republic itself then became the Roman Empire.
>
> [edit] Other ancient republics
> In the pre-modern period republics are generally considered to have
> been a solely European phenomenon, and states in other parts of the
> world with similar governments are not generally referred to as
> republics.[16] Some early states outside of Europe had governments
> that are sometimes today considered similar to republics. In the
> ancient Near East, a number of cities of the Eastern Mediterranean
> achieved collective rule. Arwad has been cited as one of the earliest
> known examples of a republic, in which the people, rather than a
> monarch, are described as sovereign.[26] The Israelite confederation
> of the era before the United Monarchy has also been considered a type
> of republic.[16][18]
>
> One part of the world where much attention has been paid ancient
> republics is India. In the early 20th century a number of Indian
> scholars, most notably as KP Jayaswal, argued that a number of states
> of ancient India had republican forms of government.[27] There are no
> surviving constitutions or works of political philosophy from this
> period in Indian history. The forms of government thus need to be
> deduced, mostly from the surviving religious texts. These texts do
> refer to a number of states having Gaṇa sangha, or council-based, as
> opposed to monarchial governments.
>
> A second form of evidence comes from Greeks writing about India during
> the period of contact following the conquests of Alexander. Greek
> writers about India such as Megasthenes and Arrian describe many of
> the states there to have republican governments akin to those of
> Greece.[28] Beginning around 700 BCE republics developed in a band
> running along the Indus Valley in the northwest and along the Ganges
> Plain in the northeast. They were mainly small states, though some
> confederations of republics seem to have formed that covered large
> areas, such as Vajji, which had Vaishali as its capital around 600
> BCE.[29]
>
> As in Greece, the republican era came to an end in the 4th century
> with the rise of a monarchial empire. The Maurya Empire conquered
> almost the entire subcontinent, ending the autonomy of the small
> republics. Some did remain republics under Mauryan suzerainty, or
> returned to being republics after the fall of the empire. Madra, for
> instance, survived as a republic until the 4th century CE. The final
> end of republics in India came with the rise of the Gupta Empire, and
> an associated philosophy of the divine nature of monarchy.
>
> [edit] Mercantile republics
>
> Giovan Battista Tiepolo, Neptune offers the wealth of the sea to
> Venice, 1748–50. This painting is an allegory of the power of the
> Republic of Venice.In Europe new republics appeared in the late Middle
> Ages when a number of small states embraced republican systems of
> government. These were generally small, but wealthy, trading states in
> which the merchant class had risen to prominence. Haakonssen notes
> that, by the Renaissance, Europe was divided with those states
> controlled by a landed elite being monarchies and those controlled by
> a commercial elite being republics.[11]
>
> Across Europe a wealthy merchant class developed in the important
> trading cities. Despite their wealth they had little power in the
> feudal system dominated by the rural land owners, and across Europe
> began to advocate for their own privileges and powers. The more
> centralized states, such as France and England, granted limited city
> charters.
>
> In the more loosely governed Holy Roman Empire, 51 of the largest
> towns became free imperial cities. While still under the dominion of
> the Holy Roman Emperor most power was held locally and many adopted
> republican forms of government.[30] The same rights to imperial
> immediacy were secured by the major trading cities of Switzerland. The
> towns and villages of alpine Switzerland had, courtesy of geography,
> also been largely excluded from central control. Unlike Italy and
> Germany, much of the rural area was thus not controlled by feudal
> barons, but by independent farmers who also used communal forms of
> government. When the Habsburgs tried to reassert control over the
> region both rural farmers and town merchants joined the rebellion. The
> Swiss were victorious, and the Swiss Confederacy was proclaimed, and
> Switzerland has retained a republican form of government to the
> present.[31]
>
> Italy was the most densely populated area of Europe, and also one with
> the weakest central government. Many of the towns thus gained
> considerable independence and adopted commune forms of government.
> Completely free of feudal control, the Italian city-states expanded,
> gaining control of the rural hinterland.[30] The two most powerful
> were the Republic of Venice and its rival the Republic of Genoa. Each
> were large trading ports, and further expanded by using naval power to
> control large parts of the Mediterranean. It was in Italy that an
> ideology advocating for republics first developed. Writers such as
> Bartholomew of Lucca, Brunetto Latini, Marsilius of Padua, and
> Leonardo Bruni saw the medieval city-states as heirs to the legacy of
> Greece and Rome.
>
> Two Northern Russian cities with powerful merchant class — Novgorod
> and Pskov — also adopted republican forms of government in 12th and
> 13th centuries, respectively, which ended when the republics were
> conquered by Moscow in the 20th[citation needed] century.
>
> The dominant form of government for these early republics was control
> by a limited council of elite patricians. In those areas that held
> elections, property qualifications or guild membership limited both
> who could vote and who could run. In many states no direct elections
> were held and council members were hereditary or appointed by the
> existing council. This left the great majority of the population
> without political power, and riots and revolts by the lower classes
> were common. The late Middle Ages saw more than 200 such risings in
> the towns of the Holy Roman Empire.[32] Similar revolts occurred in
> Italy, notably the Ciompi Revolt in Florence.
>
> [edit] Protestant republics
> While the classical writers had been the primary ideological source
> for the republics of Italy, in Northern Europe, the Protestant
> Reformation would be used as justification for establishing new
> republics.[33] Most important was Calvinist theology, which developed
> in the Swiss Confederacy, one of the largest and most powerful of the
> medieval republics. John Calvin did not call for the abolition of
> monarchy, but he advanced the doctrine that the faithful had the right
> to overthrow irreligious monarchs.[34] Calvinism also espoused a
> fierce egalitarianism and an opposition to hierarchy. Advocacy for
> republics appeared in the writings of the Huguenots during the French
> Wars of Religion.[35]
>
> Calvinism played an important role in the republican revolts in
> Britain and the Netherlands. Like the city-states of Italy and the
> Hanseatic League, both were important trading centres, with a large
> merchant class prospering from the trade with the New World. Large
> parts of the population of both areas also embraced Calvinism. The
> Dutch Revolt, beginning in 1568, saw the Dutch Republic reject the
> rule of Habsburg Spain in a conflict that lasted until 1648.
>
> In 1641 the English Civil War began. Spearheaded by the Puritans and
> funded by the merchants of London, the revolt was a success, and King
> Charles I was executed. In England James Harrington, Algernon Sydney,
> and John Milton became some of the first writers to argue for
> rejecting monarchy and embracing a republican form of government. The
> English Commonwealth was short lived, and the monarchy soon restored.
> The Dutch Republic continued in name until 1795, but by the mid 18th
> century the stadholder had become a de facto monarch. Calvinists were
> also some of the earliest settlers of the British and Dutch colonies
> of North America.
>
> [edit] Liberal republics
>
> An allegory of the Republic in ParisAlong with these initial
> republican revolts, early modern Europe also saw a great increase in
> monarchial power. The era of absolute monarchy replaced the limited
> and decentralized monarchies that had existed in most of the Middle
> Ages. It also saw a reaction against the total control of the monarch
> as a series of writers created the ideology known as liberalism.
>
> Most of these Enlightenment thinkers were far more interested in ideas
> of constitutional monarchy than in republics. The Cromwell regime had
> discredited republicanism, and most thinkers felt that republics ended
> in either anarchy or tyranny.[36] Thus philosophers like Voltaire
> opposed absolutism while at the same time being strongly pro-monarchy.
>
>
> Septinsular Republic flag from the early 1800s
> A revolutionary Republican hand-written bill from the Stockholm riots
> during the Revolutions of 1848, reading: "Dethrone Oscar he is not fit
> to be a king rather the Republic! The Reform! down with the Royal
> house, long live Aftonbladet! death to the king / Republic Republic
> the people. Brunkeberg this evening". The writer's identity is
> unknown.Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Montesquieu praised republics, and
> looked on the city-states of Greece as a model. However, both also
> felt that a nation-state like France, with 20 million people, would be
> impossible to govern as a republic. Rousseau described his ideal
> political structure of small self-governing communes. Montesquieu felt
> that a city-state should ideally be a republic, but maintained that a
> limited monarchy was better suited to a large nation.
>
> The American Revolution thus began as a rejection only of the
> authority of British parliament over the colonies. The failure of the
> British monarch to protect the colonies from what they considered the
> infringement of their rights to representative government, and the
> monarch's branding of those requesting redress as traitors compounded
> by sending combat troops to demonstrate authority resulted in
> widespread perception of the British monarchy as tyrannical. With the
> Declaration of Independence the leaders of the revolt firmly rejected
> the monarchy and embraced republicanism. The leaders of the revolution
> were well versed in the writings of the French liberal thinkers, and
> also in history of the classical republics. John Adams had notably
> written a book on republics throughout history. In addition, the
> widely distributed and popularly read-aloud tract Common Sense, by
> Thomas Paine, succinctly and eloquently laid out the case for
> republican ideals and independence to the larger public. The
> Constitution of the United States ratified in 1789 created a
> relatively strong federal republic to replace the relatively weak
> confederation under the first attempt at a national government with
> the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union ratified in 1783.
> The first ten amendments to the Constitution, called the United States
> Bill of Rights, guaranteed certain natural rights fundamental to
> republican ideals that justified the Revolution.
>
> The French Revolution was also not republican at its outset. Only
> after the Flight to Varennes removed most of the remaining sympathy
> for the king was a republic declared and Louis XVI sent to the
> guillotine. The stunning success of France in the French Revolutionary
> Wars saw republics spread by force of arms across much of Europe as a
> series of client republics were set up across the continent. The rise
> of Napoleon saw the end of the First French Republic, and his eventual
> defeat allowed the victorious monarchies to put an end to many of the
> oldest republics on the continent, including Venice, Genoa, and the
> Dutch.
>
> Outside of Europe another group of republics was created as the
> Napoleonic Wars allowed the states of Latin America to gain their
> independence. Liberal ideology had only a limited impact on these new
> republics. The main impetus was the local European descended Creole
> population in conflict with the Peninsulares governors sent from
> overseas. The majority of the population in most of Latin America was
> of either African or Amerindian decent, and the Creole elite had
> little interest in giving these groups power and broad-based popular
> sovereignty. Simón Bolívar was both the main instigator of the revolts
> and one of its most important theorists was sympathetic to liberal
> ideals, but felt that Latin America lacked the social cohesion for
> such a system to function and advocated autocracy as necessary.
>
> In Mexico this autocracy briefly took the form of a monarchy in the
> First Mexican Empire. Due to the Peninsular War, the Portuguese court
> was relocated to Brazil in 1808. Brazil gained independence as a
> monarchy in September 7, 1822, and the Empire of Brazil lasted until
> 1889. In the other states various forms of autocratic republic existed
> until most were liberalized at the end of the 20th century.[37]
>
> The Second French Republic was created in 1848, and the Third French
> Republic in 1871. Spain briefly became the First Spanish Republic, but
> the monarchy was soon restored. By the start of the 20th century
> France and Switzerland remained the only republics in Europe. Before
> World War I, the Portuguese Republic, established by the revolution of
> October 5, 1910, was the first of the 20th century. This would
> encourage new republics in the aftermath of the war, when several of
> the largest European empires collapsed. The German Empire,
> Austro-Hungarian Empire, Russian Empire, and Ottoman Empire were then
> replaced by republics. New states gained independence during this
> turmoil, and many of these, such as Ireland, Poland[disambiguation
> needed], Finland and Czechoslovakia, chose republican forms of
> government. In 1931, the Second Spanish Republic (1931–1939) turned
> into a civil war would be the prelude of World War II.
>
> Republican ideas were spreading, especially in Asia. The United States
> began to have considerable influence in East Asia in the later part of
> the 19th century, with Protestant missionaries playing a central role.
> The liberal and republican writers of the west also exerted influence.
> These combined with native Confucian inspired political philosophy
> that had long argued that the populace had the right to reject unjust
> government that had lost the Mandate of Heaven.
>
> Two short lived republics were proclaimed in East Asia, the Republic
> of Formosa and the First Philippine Republic. China had seen
> considerable anti-Qing sentiment, and a number of protest movements
> developed calling for constitutional monarchy. The most important
> leader of these efforts was Sun Yat-sen, whose Three Principles of the
> People combined American, European, and Chinese ideas. The Republic of
> China was proclaimed on January 1, 1912.
>
> [edit] Socialist republics
> See also Socialist state
> Strictly speaking, any real or hypothetical state organized along the
> principles of socialism may be called a socialist state. The term
> "socialist republic" is used by those socialists who wish to emphasize
> that they favour a republican form of government. Furthermore, since
> socialism purports to represent the interests of the working class,
> many socialists refer to a state organized according to their
> principles as a workers' state.
>
> [edit] Communist republics
> See also People's Republic
> Communist states such as Vietnam require that their leaders adhere to
> that ideology and to the line of the Communist party.[citation needed]
> However, most of these states allow independent politicians
> (non-affiliated).[citation needed]
>
>
> A poster that commemorates the permanent President of the Republic of
> China Yuan Shikai and the provisional President of the Republic[edit]
> Decolonization
>
> A map of the Commonwealth republicsIn the years following World War
> II, most of the remaining European colonies gained their independence,
> and most became republics. The two largest colonial powers were France
> and the United Kingdom. Republican France encouraged the establishment
> of republics in its former colonies. Great Britain attempted to follow
> the model it had for its earlier settler colonies of creating
> independent commonwealth realms still linked under the same monarchy.
> While most of the settler colonies and the smaller states of the
> Caribbean retained this system, it was rejected by the newly
> independent countries in Africa and Asia, which revised their
> constitutions and became republics.
>
> Britain followed a different model in the Middle East; it installed
> local monarchies in several colonies and mandates including Iraq,
> Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman, Yemen and Libya. In subsequent decades
> revolutions and coups overthrew a number of monarchs and installed
> republics. Several monarchies remain, and the Middle East is the only
> part of the world where several large states are ruled by monarchs
> with almost complete political control.[38]
>
> [edit] Islamic republics
> Main article: Islamic republic
> Islamic political philosophy has a long history of opposition to
> absolute monarchy, notably in the work of Al-Farabi. Sharia law took
> precedence over the will of the ruler, and electing rulers by means of
> the Shura was an important doctrine. While the early caliphate
> maintained the principles of an elected ruler, later states became
> hereditary or military dictatorships though many maintained some
> pretense of a consultative shura.
>
> None of these states are typically referred to as republics. The
> current usage of republic in Muslim countries is borrowed from the
> western meaning, adopted into the language in the late 19th
> century.[39] The 20th century saw republicanism become an important
> idea in much of the Middle East, as monarchies were removed in many
> states of the region. Some such as Iraq and Turkey became secular
> republics. Some nations, such as Indonesia and Azerbaijan, began as
> secular. In Iran, the 1979 revolution overthrew the monarchy and
> created an Islamic Republic based the ideas of Islamic democracy.
>
> [edit] Head of state
> [edit] Structure
> With no monarch, most modern republics use the title president for the
> head of state. Originally used to refer to the presiding officer of a
> committee or governing body in Great Britain the usage was also
> applied to political leaders, including the leaders of some of the
> Thirteen Colonies (originally Virginia in 1608); in full, the
> "President of the Council."[40] The first republic to adopt the title
> was the United States of America. Keeping its usage as the head of a
> committee the President of the Continental Congress was the leader of
> the original congress. When the new constitution was written the title
> of President of the United States was conferred on the head of the new
> executive branch. Today almost all republics use the title president
> for the head of state.
>
> If the head of state of a republic is also the head of government,
> this is called a presidential system. There are a number of forms of
> presidential government. A full-presidential system has a president
> with substantial authority and a central political role. The United
> States was the first example of such a system, and the basis for the
> model adopted elsewhere. In other states the legislature is dominant
> and the president's role is almost purely ceremonial and apolitical,
> such as in Germany and India.
>
> These states are parliamentary republics and operate similarly to
> constitutional monarchies with parliamentary systems where the power
> of the monarch is also greatly circumscribed. In parliamentary systems
> the head of government, most often titled prime minister, exercises
> the most real political power. Semi-presidential systems have a
> president as an active head of state, but also have a head of
> government with important powers.
>
> The rules for appointing the president and the leader of the
> government, in some republics permit the appointment of a president
> and a prime minister who have opposing political convictions: in
> France, when the members of the ruling cabinet and the president come
> from opposing political factions, this situation is called
> cohabitation.
>
> In some countries, like Switzerland and San Marino, the head of state
> is not a single person but a committee (council) of several persons
> holding that office. The Roman Republic had two consuls, appointed for
> a year.
>
> [edit] Election
> In liberal democracies presidents are elected, either directly by the
> people or indirectly by a parliament or council. Typically in
> presidential and semi-presidential systems the president is directly
> elected by the people, or is indirectly elected as done in the United
> States. In that country the president is officially elected by an
> electoral college, chosen by the States, all of which do so by direct
> election of the electors. The indirect election of the president
> through the electoral college conforms to the concept of republic as
> one with a system of indirect election. In the opinion of some, direct
> election confers legitimacy upon the president and gives the office
> much of its political power.[41] However, this concept of legitimacy
> differs from that expressed in the United States Constitution which
> established the legitimacy of the United States president as resulting
> from the signing of the Constitution by 9 states.[42] The idea that
> direct election is required for legitimacy also contradicts the spirit
> of the Great Compromise, whose actual result was manifest in the
> clause[43] that provides voters in smaller states with slightly more
> representation in presidential selection than those in large states.
>
> In states with a parliamentary system the president is usually elected
> by the parliament. This indirect elections subordinates the president
> to the parliament, and also gives the president limited legitimacy and
> turns most presidential powers into reserve powers that can only be
> exercised under rare circumstance. There are exceptions where elected
> presidents have only ceremonial powers, such as in the Republic of
> Ireland.
>
> [edit] Ambiguities
> The distinction between a republic and a monarchy are not always
> clear. The constitutional monarchies of the former British Empire and
> Western Europe today have almost all real political power vested in
> the elected representatives, with the monarchs only holding
> theoretical and rarely used reserve powers. Real legitimacy for
> political decisions comes from the elected representatives and is
> derived from the will of the people. While hereditary monarchies
> remain in place, political power is derived from the people as in a
> republic. These states are thus sometimes referred to as crowned
> republics.[44]
>
> Terms such as liberal republic are also used to describe all of the
> modern liberal democracies.[45]
>
> There are also self proclaimed republics that act similarly to
> monarchies with absolute power vested in the leader and passed down
> from father to son. North Korea and Syria are two notable examples
> where a son has inherited political control. Neither of these states
> are officially monarchies. There is no constitutional requirement that
> power be passed down within one family, but it has occurred in
> practice.
>
> There are also elective monarchy where ultimate power is vested in a
> monarch, but the monarch is chosen by some manner of election. A
> current example of such a state is Malaysia where the Yang di-Pertuan
> Agong is elected every five years by the Conference of Rulers composed
> of the nine hereditary rulers of the Malay states. While rare today,
> elective monarchs were common in the past. The Holy Roman Empire is an
> important example, where each new emperor was chosen by a group of
> electors. Islamic states also rarely employed primogeniture instead
> relying on various forms of election to chose a monarchs successor.
>
> The Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth had an elective monarchy, with a
> wide suffrage of some 500,000 nobles. The system, known as the Golden
> Liberty, had developed as a method for powerful landowners to control
> the crown. The proponents of this system looked to classical examples,
> and the writings of the Italian Renaissance, and called their elective
> monarchy a rzeczpospolita, based on res publica.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic
>
> On 10/20/10, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So, then in other words,
>> Republicans, whose purpose is to control, are like Facists. Their
>> purpose is to control The Majority strictly, as well as all others
>> among the people.
>>
>> Democrats, whose purpose is to rule In a fair Democracy, and any group
>> of Individuals composing any Minority, have no protection against the
>> unlimited power of The Majority, and therefore must keep the
>> Republicans from taking control of the government again in order to
>> protect themselves from unlimited power of facist Republicans.
>>
>> Corporate greed, absolute control, and absoulute power is Republican.
>>
>> Justice, well being, liberty, the persuit of happiness, and fair
>> representation by and for individuals is Democratic.
>>
>> Gotta love it.
>>
>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley <jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>> Anyone following this thread can see you are dodging the question.
>>>
>>> You have spent a considerable amount of time doing so.
>>>
>>> So based on your refusal to answer the question, and, based on your
>>> assertion that it was a baited question, I can only conclude that you
>>> are a closet socialist.
>>>
>>> On 10/20/2010 10:47 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>> No, I am not.
>>>>
>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>> Of course you're dodging the question.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not like I was asking you for a 15-page dissertation on your
>>>>> beliefs. I simply asked you to chose between two brief descriptions of
>>>>> two types of governments.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:24 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>> I am not dodging the question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I said that it is a dumb and baited question and I stand buy that
>>>>>> statement.
>>>>>> I believe in Democracy. I am an American.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Why are you dodging the question, Tommy?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to a political forum. How is asking which of two
>>>>>>> systems of government you think we should follow being silly?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The fact that you understand it is a baited question leads me to
>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>> you know you are a socialist. You're just afraid to admit it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or, perhaps - since you push all the collectivism crap on us - you
>>>>>>> prefer being called a collectivist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Collectivist*, n. An advocate of collectivism. -- a. Relating
>>>>>>> to,
>>>>>>> or characteristic of, collectivism.*
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Collectivism*, n. The doctrine that land and capital should
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> owned by society collectively or as a whole; communism.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 10:07 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>>> Why would you even ask such a silly, baited, and officiously
>>>>>>>> offensive
>>>>>>>> question?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not a Marxist, Socialist, or Communist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Centrist Liberals, Democrats, and President Obama are not either.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Jonathan Ashley<jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Should have read:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tommy,
>>>>>>>>>> Which one of the following systems of government do you believe
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> should follow?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. A system in which the means of production and
>>>>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> privately or corporately owned and development is
>>>>>>>>>> proportionate
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a
>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>> market.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. A system of social organization in which the means of
>>>>>>>>>> producing
>>>>>>>>>> and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a
>>>>>>>>>> centralized
>>>>>>>>>> government that often plans and controls the economy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/2010 9:36 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> It appears that you do not know what Marxism is, Keith, as you
>>>>>>>>>>> continually and falsely call Democrats, Centrist liberals,
>>>>>>>>>>> Progressives, and President Obama Marxists, which they are not.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That is why I sent this piece, to enlighten you, if that is
>>>>>>>>>>> possible.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Liberals and Democrats are NOT Marxists, Socialists, or
>>>>>>>>>>> Communists.
>>>>>>>>>>> Using these false slurs over and over again is offensive and
>>>>>>>>>>> repetitive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe that those who slander and disrespect the President
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/20/10, Keith In Tampa<keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Those who don't comprehend or understand what Marxism,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Socialism,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Capitalism, etc., mean, and somehow believe that it is "hate
>>>>>>>>>>>> speech"
>>>>>>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>>>>>>> calling an individual a "Socialist"; because he advocates a
>>>>>>>>>>>> socialistic
>>>>>>>>>>>> political and economic system over a capitalistic, free market
>>>>>>>>>>>> economy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorant.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't mean to say that they are stupid....Far from it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have a
>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of respect for these that are ignorant, or Anti-American.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> dangerous to our Nation. I have come to the conclusion that
>>>>>>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>> fall into one of two categories:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (A) *e.g.;* Most of them are ill informed and not well read.
>>>>>>>>>>>> They
>>>>>>>>>>>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep up with current events, other than to watch liberal,
>>>>>>>>>>>> biased
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainstream
>>>>>>>>>>>> media, or read and follow far left slanted web sites, never
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> time
>>>>>>>>>>>> to comprehend why or how any specific situation or came to be,
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> root
>>>>>>>>>>>> cause, genesis or motivation of any particular issue. They
>>>>>>>>>>>> tend
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> believe
>>>>>>>>>>>> that they are the only ones that are compassionate, failing to
>>>>>>>>>>>> realize
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> it is statistically proven in fact, that those who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> conservative
>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute far more money& resources to charitable causes.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Further,
>>>>>>>>>>>> (and
>>>>>>>>>>>> just as important!) these same individuals don't have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> our history; they fail to understand or comprehend the
>>>>>>>>>>>> principals
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> tenets
>>>>>>>>>>>> that made the United States the greatest Nation-State in the
>>>>>>>>>>>> World,
>>>>>>>>>>>> bar
>>>>>>>>>>>> none. In general, these people reject the notion that our
>>>>>>>>>>>> founding
>>>>>>>>>>>> fathers
>>>>>>>>>>>> were influenced by Christian principals and tenets, but they do
>>>>>>>>>>>> understand
>>>>>>>>>>>> enough history that they would very much like to revise this
>>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect. Thus their lack of understanding and reasoning; or,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> (B) They are literally Anti-Americans, and they want to see
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> United
>>>>>>>>>>>> States become equal to or consistent with a third world or
>>>>>>>>>>>> fourth
>>>>>>>>>>>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nation-State.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is literally no other option.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The point being, is that ALL of these folks are hypocritical,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> filled
>>>>>>>>>>>> with hate. When confronted with truth, logic, or just basic
>>>>>>>>>>>> facts,
>>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>>> can resort to is slinging out hate filled smear, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>> typical
>>>>>>>>>>>> far
>>>>>>>>>>>> left,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Socialist-Elitist talking points that have been generated by
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> George
>>>>>>>>>>>> Soros' funded foundations, media organizations and social
>>>>>>>>>>>> networks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> All
>>>>>>>>>>>> they can do, is attack the messenger.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Tommy
>>>>>>>>>>>> News<tommysnews@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thiose who use words as clubs are misguided bullies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>>>> For options& help
>>>>>>>>>>>> seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The
>>>>>>>>>> Federal
>>>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is
>>>>>>>>>> superior
>>>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>>>>> Your personal email. Anytime, anywhere.
>>>>>>>>>> Ridiculously affordable at $19.95. No contracts.
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html
>>>>>>>>>> <%20http://www.getpeek.com/lavabit.html>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The
>>>>>>>>> Federal
>>>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is
>>>>>>>>> superior
>>>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>>>> Government*
>>>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>>>> happening. What
>>>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>>>> public relations."
>>>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>>>> For options& help see
>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>>>> Government*
>>>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>>>
>>>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>>>
>>>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>>>> governed are weak.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>>>> happening. What
>>>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>>>> public relations."
>>>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>>>
>>>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>>>> cannot be."
>>>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>
>>>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> *Your Remedy Is In The Courts Jurisdictionary®
>>> <http://www.jurisdictionary.com?refercode=CG0004>*
>>>
>>> *I Refuse To Comply With The Unconstitutional Demands Of The Federal
>>> Government*
>>> http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html
>>>
>>> *Government is a disease masquerading as its own cure.
>>>
>>> *Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be
>>> governed are weak.*
>>>
>>> *"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really
>>> happening. What
>>> separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior
>>> public relations."
>>> - Marc Stevens
>>>
>>> "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free it expects something that
>>> cannot be."
>>> - Thomas Jefferson****
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>
>>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>
>
> --
> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
> Have a great day,
> Tommy
>


--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy

--
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