Sep 27, 2011 || World News

Tuesday, September 27, 2011

Where Is Grover Cleveland When You Need Him?

Where Is Grover Cleveland When You Need Him?
Posted by Laurence Vance on September 27, 2011 08:53 AM

Congress just passed a bill that included spending on disaster relief. Clearly unconstitutional, of course, just like 99 percent of everything Congress does. Obama will certainly sign the bill. There was a time when a Democratic president would do no such thing. President Grover Cleveland vetoed a bill in 1887 that would have provided seed for farmers in drought-stricken Texas. In his veto message he stated:

I can find no warrant for such an appropriation in the Constitution, and I do not believe that the power and duty of the general government ought to be extended to the relief of individual suffering which is in no manner properly related to the public service or benefit. A prevalent tendency to disregard the limited mission of this power and duty should, I think, be steadfastly resisted, to the end that the lesson should be constantly enforced that, though the people support the government, the government should not support the people.

He also said that aid from Washington only "encourages the expectation of paternal care on the part of the Government and weakens the sturdiness of our national character."

Grover Cleveland was truly the last good Democratic president in the Jeffersonian tradition. Just look at what we have had since: Wilson, FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Obama. Of all these, I suppose Carter did the least damage.

Calling All Polite, Rational Cain Supporters

September27th
Calling All Polite, Rational Cain Supporters
Tom Woods

The other day I wrote about the Florida straw poll that Herman Cain won by a substantial margin. I didn't call anyone stupid or evil for supporting Cain. I laid out some facts that appear to speak against him to anyone who supports the market economy and a free society. The three I pointed to in the post were his support for TARP, his 2008 endorsement of Mitt Romney (whom Cain supporters claim they despise), and his failure to see the housing collapse coming or even to detect that something might be wrong with the bubble economy. It's worse than that, actually he gave the economy a clean bill of health practically until the collapse came. That is a serious problem. How can we want someone in charge at a critical moment like this whose grasp of the economy is evidently so poor?

I did not invent these things. They really happened. They need to be addressed.

Here are the replies I received from Cain supporters:

1. There's a reason why Mr. Cain has run multi-million dollar corporations amazingly well, and you have not. Mr. Cain knows what he's talking about, and your just a talking head rattling off rhetoric, and nonsense. You think you are better than those who lack your credentials. NEWS FLASH: YOU ARE NOT! Mr. Cain could school you in humility, which you definitely need educated in. get off your damn pedestal, at the end of the day, you aren't special.

How many of my concerns are addressed here? Zero. Evidently it is "rhetoric" and "nonsense" to say Cain supported TARP and Romney, and didn't perceive the housing bubble at all. It's "rhetoric" and "nonsense" to say Americans need to understand what causes the booms and busts in our economy.

As for Cain's ability to run businesses, what on earth does that have to do with my post?

What's more, as Ludwig von Mises showed long ago (in Bureaucracy, Yale University Press, 1944), it is literally impossible to run government like a business. Business firms make decisions via forecasts of consumer demand, with those forecasts being informed by the existing array of prices, the profits or losses they have earned, and from general entrepreneurial insight. They then decide, on this basis, whether they have too many or too few people in customer service, in order fulfillment, or whatever; whether they should invest in more capital equipment; whether they should discontinue a whole line of products, etc.

Government can't do this. It doesn't make profits or losses; it merely seizes what it wants from the public. Thus it has no way of knowing what the public actually wants or the intensity with which it wants it. It can't know if it should produce more of X or more of Y, how it should produce those things, where it should produce them, etc. It must grope in the dark. All the Ross Perots and Herman Cains in the world cannot change the nature of government, which is a non-market institution.

2. Herman Cain is by far the strongest supporter of the FairTax. That gets him my vote.

Granted, this one also doesn't answer any of my objections, but at least it's polite. My reply:

I would think we'd want opponents of taxes, not supporters. He said in Florida that any tax reform must be revenue neutral. That alone disqualifies him.

Anything revenue neutral is a bad idea. I guess I just don't share the optimism of the FairTax people, who seem to think the system is basically fine but just needs to be funded differently. Say what?

The only way this monster is going to be cut down to size is if serious, radical changes are made, including repealing taxes and not replacing them with anything. Any other approach is just another shell game, another example of D.C. fakery. "Tax reform" is always and everywhere a D.C. trick. Tax repeal is what we want.

3. I have been listening to Mr. Cain for years. Many years. I don't see anyone who is more sincere than he. His wife doesn't want him to be president, I heard the story that said she was miffed when some reporter said how cain couldn't win. Because his whole life…anyone who said he couldn't do something was proved wrong.

He's not doing this for glory. He has plenty of other things to do with his time.

And when he supported TARP (which I did/do not) – he did get a lot of flak from people. but that's what he thought was a good thing…I think it's a breath of fresh air to have a candidate of ANY party that is free to speak his/her mind. That isn't afraid to not be in lockstep with 'the leadership.'

I don't question his sincerity. He could be a decent guy. That's not my gripe. The mention of TARP, which I appreciate because it at least addresses my post, is much more relevant. The fact that he thought it was a good thing isn't an argument. You claim he "isn't afraid to not be in lockstep with 'the leadership,'" but on TARP he sure was!

And this is what counts: when the chips were down, he sided with the establishment: the GOP leadership, the Democratic leadership, the New York Times, and all the rest. Now I've heard it claimed that Cain supported the original rationale for TARP but turned on the program when it went in a different direction. But the original rationale for TARP was rotten, too. Meanwhile, Cain was lecturing "free-market purists" for opposing it.

Is that what we need? Someone who will lecture "free-market purists" as if that were the problem in the U.S. today?

4. You really can't handle people thinking ON THEIR OWN and believing WHAT THEY WANT and WHO THEY WANT.
Go back to Alabama where y'all are safely hidden away with your books and your Stink tank, Mr Woods.

So this one makes no argument at all. It says I am upset because people disagree with me. No, I am upset because there are serious problems with Herman Cain that his supporters refuse to address. This comment carries on that tradition.

In fact, this comment is completely irrational. People should decide on "who they want" but not actually have to defend that decision, and anyone calling on them to do so is a meanie who should just shut his mouth.

5. I have watched the debates and Cain has been the the most coherent of all the candidates. Yes he had some lapses in the libertarian orthodoxy (Jim DeMint also supported Romney in 08) but he carries himself as a leader better than all the other Republican candidates.

This is neither insulting nor irrational, so it wins the prize. But it's no real answer.

I think we are talking more than just "lapses" in "libertarian orthodoxy." When the chips were down, he went with the establishment and supported TARP. I'm supposed to believe that the next time the chips are down he'll be a maverick? Sure.

That someone would make a decision based on something as superficial as how a candidate "carries himself" is deeply disturbing and, unfortunately, quite revealing. If he can't perceive the signs of a bubble economy, I don't care if he's Spencer Tracy on stage.

So my question is, are there Cain supporters out there who will reply to my concerns straightforwardly and without insulting me? Again, I want to know why his support for Romney (of all people!) isn't a cause for concern, why his support for TARP isn't an indication that he'll support the next scam the establishment promotes as a necessary emergency measure, and why we should want someone making decisions about the economy who completely failed to diagnose its true condition in the years leading up to the collapse.

Meanwhile, I refer people to my resource page on Cain and my YouTube on the subject.

http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/calling-all-polite-rational-cain-supporters/

DailyKos has robo-callers to all the talk radio shows today quoting Warren's marxoid econ

Elizabeth Warren's Voodoo Economics

The liberal Senate candidate sets fire to a straw man.

A. Barton Hinkle | September 27, 2011

Elizabeth Warren is cheesed off.

Received wisdom says conservatives are the ones driven by anger—Republicans took the House last year because 2010 was another "year of the angry white male," and all that. But in August remarksabout class warfare that have gone viral, the Democratic candidate for a Senate seat from Massachusetts is visibly seething.

That's okay; everyone gets worked up now and then, and most of us are lucky enough not to be caught on camera at the moment. Funny thing is, Warren's comments—her rage and resentment and sarcasm—have made her an overnight heroine.

In the video, she addresses an imaginary captain of industry:

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own," she lectures. "Nobody. You built a factory out there? Good for you! But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory . . . .Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea—God bless! Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

A few points.

(1) This is a pretty powerful takedown—of a position nobody holds. Or at least nobody outside an Ayn Rand novel. If Warren can find someone who thinks he does not live in community with other people, then she might have an argument. But don't sit on a hot stove waiting.

(2) For someone who objects to the term class warfare, she sure draws a mighty bright line between "you" and "the rest of us."

(3) The question is not whether a captain of industry should pay taxes—but how much. Reasonable people can debate where to set marginal tax rates. But when the richest fifth of Americans pay 64 percent of federal income taxes while the bottom two-fifths pay less than 3 percent, the case for even greater progressivity is not beyond rational debate.

(4) Outside of a few anarchist collectives, there isn't a soul around who minds paying taxes for roads, cops, firemen, or schoolteachers. It's the jillion other things government does—from corporate welfare to the Iraq war—that people object to.

(5) Plenty of smart, well-meaning people also think even government's core functions could be delivered better and for less—just as the Obama administration has used the Dartmouth Atlas to argue for greater efficiency in medical care. E.g., since 1970 inflation-adjusted per-pupil spending in public K-12 education has doubled. Class size has been cut in half. Neither change has produced any substantial effect on academic performance. Why don't we have the equivalent of a Dartmouth Atlas for public education?

(6) Warren's remarks epitomize the caricature of a progressive as someone who loves jobs but hates employers. She implies the captain of industry is simply sponging off society and hoarding the proceeds. But hiring workers is a huge social good. So is providing a funding basis for pensions, which generally rely on stock returns. So is creating products people want. Five bucks says Warren has a smartphone and a DVR and a bunch of other modern conveniences, and that she didn't buy any of them with a gun to her head. So why is she so mad at the people who offered to sell them?

(7) Warren suggests the principle of fair play means the industrialist owes society a debt, to be repaid in steep taxes because his other contributions do not count. But this argument is one of the weakest of all the arguments for political obligation, for reasons most people can figure out after a few minutes' thought. (E.g., Suppose I mow your lawn without asking, then demand payment because it's "only fair.") Why hasn't she given them any?

(8) Perhaps, like film critic Pauline Kael, who famously didn't know anyone who had voted for Nixon, Warren doesn't know anyone who believes government and taxes should be small. And, therefore, perhaps she does not understand their reasoning. She certainly doesn't give any indication that she does.

So for the record, the reason is that—as Sheldon Richman wrote recently in The Freeman—"government is significantly different from anything else in society. It is the only institution that can legally threaten and initiate violence; that is, under color of law its officers may use physical force, up to and including lethal force—not in defense of innocent life but against individuals who have neither threatened nor aggressed against anyone else." Many of those who truly love peace prefer to live in a society where the use or threat of violence is minimized. Maybe that idea simply hasn't crossed Warren's mind.

Maybe that's why she looks like she's ready to haul off and hit someone.

A. Barton Hinkle is a columnist at the Richmond Times-Dispatch. This article originally appeared at the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: the fruits of a US interventionist policy

those in our government who support an interventionist policy must be
removed asap by any means necessary

On Sep 26, 9:06 pm, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Shit happens when you arm or grant access to the enemy regardless of
> how they are cloaked.
>
> On Sep 26, 10:38 am, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > An Afghan employed by the U.S. government killed one American and
> > wounded another in an attack on a CIA office in Kabul
>
> >http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/american-killed-kabul-a...

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: RR: Fast and Furious: Cartel Guns Purchased With Taxpayer MoneyGuns de livered from the U.S. government DIRECTLY to Mexican cartels. by John Hayward

Obama, [Hillary] Clinton, and Holder are walking around with blood on
their hands, hoping to change the subject and hoping that nobody will
notice, and hoping that there won't be any talk of criminal hearings
and impeachment. It is over for them. A best case scenario for the
president and the attorney general now is that Obama will be allowed
to peacefully lose the 2012 presidential election and quietly return
to Chicago while Holder gets a pardon from the outgoing president as a
"last official act" and avoids time in federal prison for lying to
congressional investigators.
----
fry'em whole!!!

On Sep 27, 5:33 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ----------
>
> Fast and Furious: Cartel Guns Purchased With Taxpayer Money
>
> Guns delivered from the U.S. government DIRECTLY to Mexican cartels.
> by John Hayward
>
> http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=46457
>
> GOP steps up pressure on Obama with Fast and Furious investigationhttp://us.mg6.mail.yahoo.com/dc/launch#/app/minty/inbox
>
> CBS Video. Welcome aboard.
> New Fast & Furious audio: Border Patrol agent killed by F&F weapons was
> "collateral damage"http://hotair.com/archives/2011/09/21/new-fast-furious-audio-border-p...
>
> "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers
> from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of
> Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of
> the People to alter or to abolish it…"
> Declaration of Independence , 1776 – today.
>
> We the People
> We The People <We The People <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVAhr4hZDJE>>
>
> <http://mail.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emoticons/11.gif>
>
> --
> To join RichsRants, send email to:
> richsrants-subscribe@googlegroups.com
>
> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/richsrants?hl=en
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
> Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
> <http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4e810333f2c0487e829st01duc>AwesomePennyStocks.com <
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3132/4e810333f2c0487e829st01duc>
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender <
> richsra...@juno.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20RR%3A%20Fast%20and%20Furious%3A%20Cartel%20Guns%20Purchased%20With%20Taxpayer%20MoneyGuns%20de%09livered%20from%20the%20U%2ES%2E%20government%20DIRECTLY%20to%20Mexican%20cartels%2E%20by%20%20John%09%20Hayward
> <
> http://richsra...@juno.com?subject%5Cx3dRe%3A%20RR%3A%20Fast%20and%20Furious%3A%20Cartel%20Guns%20Purchased%20With%20Taxpayer%20MoneyGuns%20de%09livered%20from%20the%20U%2ES%2E%20government%20DIRECTLY%20to%20Mexican%20cartels%2E%20by%20%20John%09%20Hayward>>
> | Reply to group <
> RUMORMILLN...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20RR%3A%20Fast%20and%20Furious%3A%20Cartel%20Guns%20Purchased%20With%20Taxpayer%20MoneyGuns%20de%09livered%20from%20the%20U%2ES%2E%20government%20DIRECTLY%20to%20Mexican%20cartels%2E%20by%20%20John%09%20Hayward
> <
> http://RUMORMILLN...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dRe%3A%20RR%3A%20Fast%20and%20Furious%3A%20Cartel%20Guns%20Purchased%20With%20Taxpayer%20MoneyGuns%20de%09livered%20from%20the%20U%2ES%2E%20government%20DIRECTLY%20to%20Mexican%20cartels%2E%20by%20%20John%09%20Hayward>>
> | Reply via web post <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUMORMILLNEWS/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxY3JwNTZ...>
> | Start a New Topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUMORMILLNEWS/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMnYycmZ...
>
> Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUMORMILLNEWS/message/58178;_ylc=X3oDMT...>
> (1)
> Recent Activity:
>
> New Members <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUMORMILLNEWS/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbHZi...>
> 1
>
> Visit Your Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RUMORMILLNEWS;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMDE2NzVlBF9T...
>
> Visit our main page!!http://www.rumormillnews.com/
>
> Come join the FUN!
> CGI - Common Grounds Independent Media
> Everyone can post!!
> RMN READER'S Forum -http://www.rayelan.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get
> the Yahoo! Toolbar now. <http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15ovr0fs0/M=493064.14543979.14562481....
>
>
>
> <http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=d6a79994-e892-11e0-b584-3fc671ce3598&T=1d1...
>
> <http://l.yimg.com/a/i/us/yg/logo/us.gif> <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkZ2ViZDRqBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycEl...
>
> Switch to: Text-Only <
> RUMORMILLNEWS-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dChange+Delivery+Format:+Traditional
> <
> http://RUMORMILLNEWS-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dChange+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>>,
> Daily Digest <
> RUMORMILLNEWS-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dEmail+Delivery:+Digest <
> http://RUMORMILLNEWS-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dEmail+Delivery:+Digest>>
> • Unsubscribe <
> RUMORMILLNEWS-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dUnsubscribe <
> http://RUMORMILLNEWS-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject%5Cx3dUnsubscribe>>
> • Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=9001843/grpspId=1705060403...
>
> __,_._,___

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Fwd: [=MAL=] Feds suspend RKBA for medical marijuana patients

the DOJ needs a cleansing asap

On Sep 27, 5:44 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Quincy
>
> A memo written by the Department of Justice addressed to individuals and
> companies who sell firearms states in no uncertain terms that according to
> the Department of Justice, it is illegal for people who are listed as
> medical marijuana patients to own a gun or ammo.
>
> Thus, with a stroke of a pen, the Department of Justice
> has de-facto suspended the right to keep and bear arms for those who use
> medical cannabis. In fact, according to the Department of Justice, the right
> to bear arms is eliminated simply by being listed in the registry. Whether
> or not a person has ever been in possession of marijuana or impaired by its
> use while around a gun is completely irrelevant. If you are in a medical
> marijuana registry at all, you do not have the right to have a firearm for
> any reason, according to the US Department of Justice.
>
> See the memo from the Department of Justice here <http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ATFOpenLetter092111.pdf>.
>
> http://www.nssf.org/share/PDF/ATFOpenLetter092111.pdf
>
> __._,_.___
> Reply to sender <
> orh...@montana.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20Feds%20suspend%20RKBA%20for%20medical%20marijuana%20patients>
> | Reply to group <
> Montana-Alliance-for-Libe...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20Feds%20suspend%20RKBA%20for%20medical%20marijuana%20patients>
> | Reply via web post <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty/post;_ylc=...>
> | Start a New Topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty/post;_ylc=...
>
> Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty/message/31...>
> (1)
> Recent Activity:
>
> New Members <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty/members;_y...>
> 1
>
> Visit Your Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty;_ylc=X3oDM...
>
> MARKETPLACE
>
> Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get
> the Yahoo! Toolbar now. <http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15oenofpv/M=493064.14543979.14562481....
>
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlbzBrZnRlBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycEl...
>
> Switch to: Text-Only <
> Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty-traditio...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dChange+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>,
> Daily Digest <
> Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty-dig...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dEmail+Delivery:+Digest>
> • Unsubscribe <
> Montana-Alliance-for-Liberty-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dUnsubscribe>
> • Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
> .
> __,_._,___

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Five Things Conservative Voters Would Hate About Chris Christie

another ignorant catholic from new jersey
Americans don't want him

On Sep 27, 9:37 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> Five Things Conservative Voters Would Hate About Chris Christie9/7/11 at 08:35 AM
> by Dan Amira
> Did you hear the news? Chris Christie is going to save the Republicans from Rick Perry, who was supposed to save them from Mitt Romney but turned out to be a completely inept debater and a traitor on issues like illegal immigration and injecting little girls with mental retardation. Now, granted, Christie has said a hundred times that he isn't ready to run for president and won't do it. He's eventhreatened to kill himselfto show how serious he is. But with Perry proving himself less than ideal, the never-satisfied GOP elite is once again pining for a conservative savior who can unite the party (or at least the anti-Romney faction of the party) and defeat President Obama. According to various reports, Christie is telling donors that, public refusals notwithstanding, he'sopen to reconsidering. Yesterday, former New Jersey governor Tom Kean said Christie is "giving it a lot of thought."
> But if conservatives think Christie is the answer to their every prayer, they may be making the same mistake they made with Perry allowing themselves to become enamored with theideaof Christie, while overlooking who he actually is. Conservatives know the New Jersey governor is a straight-talker who slashes budgets and takes on the public unions and yells at people on YouTube. Which is all great, obviously. But on some issues, Republican primary voters would be in for a rude awakening.1. Illegal ImmigrationThe biggest chink in Rick Perry's armor so far has been his record on illegal immigration specifically, the legislation he passed as governor to allow illegal immigrants to pay the in-state tuition rate when attending state colleges and universities. It's this policy that has led many Republicans to question whether Perry reallygetsillegal immigration at all. But Chris Christie is hardly the ally that illegal-immigration foes are looking for. In 2010, Christietold Politicothat America needs to come up with a "clear path to citizenship." He didn't say "for illegal immigrants," but since America already has a clear path to citizenship for legal immigrants, that's what he meant. This is an entirely reasonable and mainstream position, but in much of the GOP, they call it "amnesty."
> Christie's opponents could also point to the time heinsisted that being in the country illegally is not a crimebut an "administrative matter." He's right simply overstaying your visa, for example, can get you deported but can't land you in jail. But to impassioned illegal-immigration warriors, we're not sure the nuance will be appreciated.
> Then there's Christie's record on illegal immigration as a U.S. Attorney in New Jersey, the job he held before he became governor. Back in 2008, Bill Tucker, a producer on Lou Dobbs's now-deceased CNN show,could only find thirteen illegal-immigration casesprosecuted by Christie's office between 2002 and 2007. Tucker compared that to the U.S. Attorney's office in Kansas, which, despite a much smaller population, prosecuted 597 cases in the same time period. "This man is an utter embarrassment," Dobbs wailed.2. Gun ControlIn anOctober 2009 appearance on Sean Hannity's Fox News show, Christie voiced support for some gun-control laws:HANNITY: Are there any issues where you are, quote, moderate to left as a Republican?CHRISTIE: Listen, I favor some of the gun-control measures we have in New Jersey.HANNITY: Bad idea.CHRISTIE: Listen, we have a densely-populated state, and there's a big hand gun problem in New Jersey. Now, I don't support all the things that the governor supports by a long stretch. But I think on guns certain gun control issues, looking at it from a law-enforcement perspective, seeing how many police officers were killed, we have an illegal gun problem in New Jersey.HANNITY: Should every should every citizen in the state be allowed to get a licensed weapon if they want one?CHRISTIE: In New Jersey, that's not going to happen, Sean.HANNITY: Why?CHRISTIE: Listen, the Democratic legislature we have, there's no way those type of things listen, at the end of the day, what I support are common sense laws that will allow people to protect themselves, but I also am very concerned about the safety of our police officers on the streets, very concerned. And I want to make sure that we don't have an abundance of guns out there.Again, most people believe in having some "common sense" gun-control laws. But when politicians say "common sense gun-control laws," conservatives hear "seize all weapons and ban hunting and make everyone eat tofu." Compare Christie's even-handedness on guns to Perry, who literally goes jogging with a laser-sighted pistol in case he needs toshoot any coyotes. When Perry was asked earlier this month whether the supports gun control, he responded, "I am actually for gun control. Use both hands."
> 3. Climate Change
> Rick Perry claims thatclimate change is a hoaxthat scientists have concocted as a way to get more funding. Chris Christie, aftergoing back and forthon the issue a bit,said just this Augustthat "climate change is real" and "human activity plays a role in these changes." As for those scheming scientists, Christie said that "when you have over 90 percent of the world's scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role, it's time to defer to the experts."
> 4. Race to the Top
> Race to the Top, the federal program created by President Obama and Education Secretary Arne Duncan in which large grants are offered to states that reform their education systems, shouldn't necessarily be a problem for conservatives. After all, some of the reforms Race to the Top hopes to incentivize, such as measuring teachers based on the success of their students, are goals shared by Republicans. But apparently it's a sin these days to support anything the Obama administration does. In the last GOP debate, Rick Perry proclaimed that "there is one person on this stage that is for Obama's Race to the Top and that is Governor Romney," adding, "[T]hat is not conservative." Mitt Romney thentied himself up in knotstrying to deny the accusation. "I'm not sure exactly what he's saying," Romney claimed. "I don't support any particular program that he's describing."
> Well, we know Chris Christie supports Race to the Top, because as governor,he applied for its funds. Christie also called Obama a "great ally" in education reform and praised Duncan as an "extraordinary leader on this issue."
> 5. Muslims
> Remember when people pretended, for a little while, that the ground-zero mosque was a slap in the face of the victims of 9/11? In the heat of the controversy, as Republican politicians demagogued the issue to death, Christie claimed that the mosque was "being used as a political football by both parties." He added that while we must "give some measure of deference to the feelings" of 9/11 families, "it would be wrong to so overreact to that, that we paint Islam with a brush of radical Muslim extremists that just want to kill Americans because we are Americans."
> And while we're talking about Muslims, Christie came under fire by some anti-Islam hysterics this summer for his appointment of Sohail Mohammed to New Jersey Superior Court. Mohammed, a Muslim lawyer, at one point represented Mohammed Qatanani, a New Jersey imam facing deportation who had alleged past ties to Hamas. The ties were never proven and Qatanani wasn't deported, partly owing to the support he received from Jewish leaders, politicians, and law-enforcement officials like Chris Christie, who called Qatanani "a man of great goodwill." As for the outcry over his nomination of Mohammed, Christie said, "It's just crazy, and I'm tired of dealing with the crazies."http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/09/chris_christie_flaws.html

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Five Things Conservative Voters Would Hate About Chris Christie

Five Things Conservative Voters Would Hate About Chris Christie
9/7/11 at 08:35 AM
by Dan Amira

Did you hear the news? Chris Christie is going to save the Republicans from Rick Perry, who was supposed to save them from Mitt Romney but turned out to be a completely inept debater and a traitor on issues like illegal immigration and injecting little girls with mental retardation. Now, granted, Christie has said a hundred times that he isn't ready to run for president and won't do it. He's even threatened to kill himself to show how serious he is. But with Perry proving himself less than ideal, the never-satisfied GOP elite is once again pining for a conservative savior who can unite the party (or at least the anti-Romney faction of the party) and defeat President Obama. According to various reports, Christie is telling donors that, public refusals notwithstanding, he's open to reconsidering. Yesterday, former New Jersey governor Tom Kean said Christie is " giving it a lot of thought."

But if conservatives think Christie is the answer to their every prayer, they may be making the same mistake they made with Perry allowing themselves to become enamored with the idea of Christie, while overlooking who he actually is. Conservatives know the New Jersey governor is a straight-talker who slashes budgets and takes on the public unions and yells at people on YouTube. Which is all great, obviously. But on some issues, Republican primary voters would be in for a rude awakening.

1. Illegal Immigration
The biggest chink in Rick Perry's armor so far has been his record on illegal immigration specifically, the legislation he passed as governor to allow illegal immigrants to pay the in-state tuition rate when attending state colleges and universities. It's this policy that has led many Republicans to question whether Perry really gets illegal immigration at all. But Chris Christie is hardly the ally that illegal-immigration foes are looking for. In 2010, Christie told Politico that America needs to come up with a "clear path to citizenship." He didn't say "for illegal immigrants," but since America already has a clear path to citizenship for legal immigrants, that's what he meant. This is an entirely reasonable and mainstream position, but in much of the GOP, they call it "amnesty."

Christie's opponents could also point to the time he insisted that being in the country illegally is not a crime but an "administrative matter." He's right simply overstaying your visa, for example, can get you deported but can't land you in jail. But to impassioned illegal-immigration warriors, we're not sure the nuance will be appreciated.

Then there's Christie's record on illegal immigration as a U.S. Attorney in New Jersey, the job he held before he became governor. Back in 2008, Bill Tucker, a producer on Lou Dobbs's now-deceased CNN show, could only find thirteen illegal-immigration cases prosecuted by Christie's office between 2002 and 2007. Tucker compared that to the U.S. Attorney's office in Kansas, which, despite a much smaller population, prosecuted 597 cases in the same time period. "This man is an utter embarrassment," Dobbs wailed.

2. Gun Control
In an October 2009 appearance on Sean Hannity's Fox News show, Christie voiced support for some gun-control laws:

HANNITY: Are there any issues where you are, quote, moderate to left as a Republican?

CHRISTIE: Listen, I favor some of the gun-control measures we have in New Jersey.

HANNITY: Bad idea.

CHRISTIE: Listen, we have a densely-populated state, and there's a big hand gun problem in New Jersey. Now, I don't support all the things that the governor supports by a long stretch. But I think on guns certain gun control issues, looking at it from a law-enforcement perspective, seeing how many police officers were killed, we have an illegal gun problem in New Jersey.

HANNITY: Should every should every citizen in the state be allowed to get a licensed weapon if they want one?

CHRISTIE: In New Jersey, that's not going to happen, Sean.

HANNITY: Why?

CHRISTIE: Listen, the Democratic legislature we have, there's no way those type of things listen, at the end of the day, what I support are common sense laws that will allow people to protect themselves, but I also am very concerned about the safety of our police officers on the streets, very concerned. And I want to make sure that we don't have an abundance of guns out there.

Again, most people believe in having some "common sense" gun-control laws. But when politicians say "common sense gun-control laws," conservatives hear "seize all weapons and ban hunting and make everyone eat tofu." Compare Christie's even-handedness on guns to Perry, who literally goes jogging with a laser-sighted pistol in case he needs to shoot any coyotes. When Perry was asked earlier this month whether the supports gun control, he responded, " I am actually for gun control. Use both hands."

3. Climate Change
Rick Perry claims that climate change is a hoax that scientists have concocted as a way to get more funding. Chris Christie, after going back and forth on the issue a bit, said just this August that "climate change is real" and "human activity plays a role in these changes." As for those scheming scientists, Christie said that "when you have over 90 percent of the world's scientists who have studied this stating that climate change is occurring and that humans play a contributing role, it's time to defer to the experts."

4. Race to the Top
Race to the Top, the federal program created by President Obama and Education Secretary Arne Duncan in which large grants are offered to states that reform their education systems, shouldn't necessarily be a problem for conservatives. After all, some of the reforms Race to the Top hopes to incentivize, such as measuring teachers based on the success of their students, are goals shared by Republicans. But apparently it's a sin these days to support anything the Obama administration does. In the last GOP debate, Rick Perry proclaimed that "there is one person on this stage that is for Obama's Race to the Top and that is Governor Romney," adding, "[T]hat is not conservative." Mitt Romney then tied himself up in knots trying to deny the accusation. "I'm not sure exactly what he's saying," Romney claimed. "I don't support any particular program that he's describing."

Well, we know Chris Christie supports Race to the Top, because as governor, he applied for its funds. Christie also called Obama a " great ally" in education reform and praised Duncan as an "extraordinary leader on this issue."

5. Muslims
Remember when people pretended, for a little while, that the ground-zero mosque was a slap in the face of the victims of 9/11? In the heat of the controversy, as Republican politicians demagogued the issue to death, Christie claimed that the mosque was " being used as a political football by both parties." He added that while we must "give some measure of deference to the feelings" of 9/11 families, "it would be wrong to so overreact to that, that we paint Islam with a brush of radical Muslim extremists that just want to kill Americans because we are Americans."

And while we're talking about Muslims, Christie came under fire by some anti-Islam hysterics this summer for his appointment of Sohail Mohammed to New Jersey Superior Court. Mohammed, a Muslim lawyer, at one point represented Mohammed Qatanani, a New Jersey imam facing deportation who had alleged past ties to Hamas. The ties were never proven and Qatanani wasn't deported, partly owing to the support he received from Jewish leaders, politicians, and law-enforcement officials like Chris Christie, who called Qatanani " a man of great goodwill." As for the outcry over his nomination of Mohammed, Christie said, " It's just crazy, and I'm tired of dealing with the crazies."

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2011/09/chris_christie_flaws.html

Government Shutdown Avoided with Senate Vote

Government Shutdown Avoided with Senate Vote
"Ending weeks of political brinkmanship, Congress finessed a dispute over disaster aid Monday night and advanced legislation to avoid a partial government shutdown only days away." ( Christian Science Monitor)

Can no one imagine an alternative to government disaster relief?

Disaster Relief Then and Now
Early Americans Were Self-Reliant
Janet Sharp Hermann
May 2000 • Volume: 50 • Issue: 5 •

Janet Sharp Hermann is an American historian and author living in Berkeley, California.

The earthquake of October 17, 1989, had no sooner struck the San Francisco Bay Area than politicians began vying for television time to offer government assistance. Within a few hours, as reports of the damage were still coming in, the Lieutenant Governor of California publicly pledged the state's financial assistance to the victims. The next morning the President of the United States declared the affected region a disaster area, opening the way for federal assistance. At the same time the Vice President, touring the quake site, personally assured local officials of prompt implementation of the government relief program. Two days later the President himself appeared on the scene with similar promises. Soon volunteer lawyers were offering to assist victims in filling out complex forms that would bring immediate cash benefits. When disaster strikes, Americans automatically turn to government for relief.

This was not always the case. When the most severe earthquake in its recorded history struck the North American continent in 1811, victims living near the epicenter at New Madrid, Missouri, waited two years before even petitioning the government for assistance. The fledgling new nation that was the United States was expanding rapidly. By 1811 the flow of new settlers had penetrated beyond the Mississippi River well into Missouri Territory, which, as part of the Louisiana Purchase, had been opened to Yankee settlement just eight years earlier. However settlements were still sparse in the earthquake zone centered in the Mississippi Valley, where scattered small farms clustered around tiny villages such as New Madrid and Little Prairie in Missouri Territory.

At 2 a.m. on December 16, people up and down the mid-continent were jolted awake by the first shock of the great earthquake. Shaken from their beds, most fled their cabins as crockery crashed to the floor, precious glass windows shattered, and ridgepoles collapsed. In the village of Little Prairie, near the epicenter of the quake, screams of birds, animals, and people mingled with the rumble of the earth and the crashing of trees. Now and then there was a sharp crack as a crater suddenly opened in the earth spewing dust, rocks, and bits of coal shale mixed with sulphurous-smelling gas. Repeated shocks threw the frightened settlers to the ground, where in the dim glow they watched the earth undulate in waves two or three feet high, the largest of which broke open as fissures. In some places the ground was thrust upward in large domes while other areas sank several feet.

The most densely populated place in the quake zone that night was the Mississippi River, where clumsy flatboats and sleek keel-boats anchored beside banks or islands. When the big quake came these small boats were tossed about like toys on the huge swells churned up by the moving earth. In some places large chunks of the river bank including tall trees crumbled into the water with a crash, crushing hapless boats anchored beneath and capsizing others nearby. Soon the river was thick with trees and debris from the shore mingled with old logs, brush, and mud thrown up from the bottom. From time to time a loud hiss signaled the eruption of an underwater crater that projected refuse 30 feet into the air. By morning light, survivors noted barrels of flour, tobacco, and whiskey floating along beside boat fragments and stray garments among the tangle of trees and brush. In some places entire islands had disappeared, and the course of the river was drastically altered.

Church Bells Rang

The December 16 shock was only the first of a seemingly endless series that eventually leveled manmade structures in the New Madrid vicinity and were felt over perhaps one million square miles. The quakes rang church bells, stopped pendulum clocks, moved furniture, and cracked pavements and plaster as far east as Charleston, South Carolina, and Richmond in Virginia. Residents in Detroit some 600 miles from the epicenter counted nine sharp shocks in the next three months, while an engineer in Louisville less than 200 miles from Little Prairie recorded 1,874 tremors of varying intensity in that time. One householder in Cincinnati who had rigged a pendulum in his front window claimed that it swung constantly through the winter and into the spring of 1812. Although there were fallen chimneys and cracked brick or stone walls from St. Louis in the north to Savannah and New Orleans in the south, the most severe damage was sustained in New Madrid County in southeastern Missouri Territory.

Modern scientists believe that the New Madrid earthquakes of 1811-12 probably had the highest magnitude and covered the widest area of any that have struck the North American continent in historic times. After an exhaustive examination of all available evidence, Otto W. Nuttli, a St. Louis University seismologist, estimated that the December 16 shock probably had a magnitude of 8.6 on the Richter scale, that of January 23 was nearer 8.4, and the final major quake of February 7 reached 8.7. By comparison the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, so costly in lives and property, was weaker than any of these with a Richter magnitude of 8.3, and the recent one was measured at only 6.9 or 7.

Despite the severity of the New Madrid quakes, no more than a dozen deaths were recorded and most of these were from drowning. The debris on the river that passed Natchez in subsequent weeks indicated that there were undoubtedly many unrecorded deaths on the Mississippi, but on land there was greater loss of property than of life. Settlers' cabins could be rebuilt, but many of their painstakingly cleared fields were badly fissured or covered with erupted rocks and shale. In a few cases bodies of water had been formed preventing cultivation of the affected land. Often the wells were dry and useless as a result of a shift in the water table, and the pond or stream that a farmer had counted on to supply his cattle might now be located on his neighbor's land. In the village of New Madrid, homeowners suffered most severely when the February shock caused the town to sink some 15 feet, resulting in severe flooding in the spring.

No Government Relief

There was no organized effort to assist these hard-pressed disaster victims either in their immediate needs for food and shelter or the long-term restoration of their property. As with any crisis on the frontier, those who were able aided their neighbors in a cooperative effort to rebuild. Psychiatric counseling, either government or private, was unknown in the early nineteenth century, but the psychological trauma of repeated quakes drove many who had spent little time in church to suddenly embrace religion. From informal prayer meetings as the ground shook to well-organized camp meetings the next spring and summer, these "earthquake Christians" joined in pious practices in unprecedented numbers.

With no mass media to publicize it, the plight of these frontiersmen was little known in the rest of the nation. The idea of seeking material aid from the government seems to have occurred to the victims only gradually. On Holy Thursday, March 26, 1812, while the Mississippi Valley still shook, an earthquake struck the city of Caracas in Venezuela, killing some 20,000 people, many of whom were crushed in churches as they worshipped. In an unusual gesture, the Congress of the United States appropriated $50,000 for Venezuelan relief. Some months later when delegates to the Missouri territorial assembly learned of this charitable gift, they decided that a similar gesture would be in order for their own people. So in January 1814, two years after the disaster, the assembly petitioned the U.S. Congress on behalf of "our unfortunate fellow citizens" of New Madrid County who were now "wandering around without a home to go to or a roof to shelter them from the pitiless storms." Noting congressional generosity to the Venezuelans, the Missourians felt sure that Congress would be "equally ready to extend relief to a portion of its own Citizens under similar circumstances," because "we ought never forget that what was their fate Yesterday, may be ours tomorrow." After another year's delay Congress approved a request that the New Madrid earthquake victims be compensated from public lands. Those whose property had been damaged could take their titles to the land office in St. Louis and receive in exchange certificates allowing them "to locate the like quantity of land on any of the public lands in said territory, the sale of which is authorized by law." No claimant was to receive less than 160 or more than 640 acres.

Even this tardy compensation proved to be ill conceived. Before the real victims learned of the passage of the bill, speculators swarmed into New Madrid County and bought up their ruined lands for a pittance. When these sharp dealers then exchanged the titles for valuable land around St. Louis or in the highly prized Boon's Lick region of central Missouri, some of the original owners filed suit for fraud. Over the next 20 years Congress passed three more acts, and various attorneys general supplied ten opinions all seeking unsuccessfully to clarify the relief law for the benefit of the earthquake victims. In 1845 the U.S. Supreme Court was still working on the legal tangle and the term "New Madrid claim" had become a synonym for fraud.

In nineteenth-century America even a feeble attempt by government to assist victims of a major disaster proved ineffective. However, the citizens of New Madrid County never expected any compensation. On the frontier in that era, failure, whether from personal inadequacy or natural calamity, was a risk each settler took with no prospect of outside assistance. The people who built America lacked the security of a government cushion against failure whatever its cause. Neighborly assistance might mitigate an immediate crisis, but in the long run each person knew that his well-being depended solely on his own efforts. Although this self-reliance entailed some real suffering, there were compensations; for example, these men were free to enjoy all the fruits of their own success unimpeded by restrictive government regulation or crippling taxation. While removing the valleys of despair from failure, the government has also leveled the peaks of joy from success.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/disaster-relief-then-and-now/

Re: JP Korea Minister resign on 1 hour loadsheding....

sir ! hakoomat k paas sharam naam ki koi cheez nhi.

On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 2:17 PM, Riaz Jafri <jafri@rifiela.com> wrote:

Why compare the Korean minister with ours?

Sharam humko magr nahi aati !!

Col. Riaz Jafri (Retd)

----- Original Message -----

From: Join Pakistan

To: JoinPakistan

Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:48 AM

Subject: **JP** Korea Minister resign on 1 hour loadsheding....

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "JoinPakistan" group.
You all are invited to come and share your information with other group members.
To post to this group, send email to joinpakistan@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com.pk/group/joinpakistan?hl=en?hl=en
You can also visit our blog site : www.joinpakistan.blogspot.com &
on facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Join-Pakistan/125610937483197

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "JoinPakistan" group.
You all are invited to come and share your information with other group members.
To post to this group, send email to joinpakistan@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com.pk/group/joinpakistan?hl=en?hl=en
You can also visit our blog site : www.joinpakistan.blogspot.com &
on facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Join-Pakistan/125610937483197

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "JoinPakistan" group.
You all are invited to come and share your information with other group members.
To post to this group, send email to joinpakistan@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com.pk/group/joinpakistan?hl=en?hl=en
You can also visit our blog site : www.joinpakistan.blogspot.com &
on facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Join-Pakistan/125610937483197

Re: JP Korea Minister resign on 1 hour loadsheding....

Why compare the Korean minister with ours?

Sharam humko magr nahi aati !!

Col. Riaz Jafri (Retd)

----- Original Message -----

From: Join Pakistan

To: JoinPakistan

Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 3:48 AM

Subject: **JP** Korea Minister resign on 1 hour loadsheding....

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "JoinPakistan" group.
You all are invited to come and share your information with other group members.
To post to this group, send email to joinpakistan@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com.pk/group/joinpakistan?hl=en?hl=en
You can also visit our blog site : www.joinpakistan.blogspot.com &
on facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Join-Pakistan/125610937483197

Fwd: [Hope4America] Fw: [Reagans Conservatives] Toons

----------

-------Original Message-------

From:
Date: 9/26/2011 4:45:40

</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.1&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.2&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.3&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.4&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.5&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.6&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.7&disp=emb&zw>
</mail/u/0/s/?view=att&th=132a8fa43ab9841f&attid=0.8&disp=emb&zw>

__._,_.___
Reply to sender <desertfox75@dslextreme.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5BReagans%20Conservatives%5D%20Toons> | Reply to group <Hope4America@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dRe%3A%20Fw%3A%20%5BReagans%20Conservatives%5D%20Toons> | Reply via web post <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hope4America/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJzb203aTA5BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNjAzNTU3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMwMzI5NgRtc2dJZAMzNjIyNDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDcnBseQRzdGltZQMxMzE3MDk0OTYx?act=reply&messageNum=362241> | Start a New Topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hope4America/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmdTVvZGpoBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNjAzNTU3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMwMzI5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTcwOTQ5NjE->
Messages in this topic <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hope4America/message/362241;_ylc=X3oDMTM5dmZpcWxyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNjAzNTU3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMwMzI5NgRtc2dJZAMzNjIyNDEEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDdnRwYwRzdGltZQMxMzE3MDk0OTYxBHRwY0lkAzM2MjI0MQ--> (1)
Recent Activity:

Visit Your Group <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Hope4America;_ylc=X3oDMTJmYXFvZDFjBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyNjAzNTU3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMwMzI5NgRzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMTcwOTQ5NjE->
IF YOU DON'T STAND BEHIND OUR TROOPS, FEEL FREE TO STAND IN FRONT OF THEM! Please visit: www.operationshoebox.com
MARKETPLACE

Stay on top of your group activity without leaving the page you're on - Get the Yahoo! Toolbar now. <http://global.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=15o6b3gag/M=493064.14543979.14562481.13298430/D=groups/S=1705303296:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1317102162/L=c10acf3e-e8ba-11e0-821b-bb67efeb09ba/B=4CXRN9BDRsg-/J=1317094962163446/K=IGJnmIM_O7c9mGh4Jstt6g/A=6060255/R=0/SIG=1194m4keh/*http://us.toolbar.yahoo.com/?.cpdl=grpj>

<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMGVtbjV2BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyNjAzNTU3BGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNTMwMzI5NgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMxNzA5NDk2Mg-->
Switch to: Text-Only <Hope4America-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dChange+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>, Daily Digest <Hope4America-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dEmail+Delivery:+Digest> • Unsubscribe <Hope4America-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject\x3dUnsubscribe> • Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
.
__,_._,___

Fwd: [=MAL=] Feds suspend RKBA for medical marijuana patients

JP Middle East Jobs