mill....Wonder why no one is bringing it up here, state-side. I
realize the "domestic economy" is the major topic for the upcoming
elections..... but I also think that both sides.... the Republicans
and the Obama administration (meaning establishement Democrats) also
have a common interest in keeping Afghanistan and Pakistan out of the
debate...... all their hopes are pinned on Petraeus and his military
option..... Not much hope in that, in my opinion........just seems to
be making matters worse......Reality has a way of always kicking you
in the Ass... no matter how "convincing" your "patriotic propaganda"
message may be....
nominal9
On Oct 8, 7:07 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting discussion in Asia
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: S Turkman <turk...@sbcglobal.net>
> Date: Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 1:06 PM
> Subject: MT~ THE US EDGES CLOSER TO INVADING PAKISTAN
> To: syedmasu...@yahoo.com, sajjad_...@hotmail.com,
>
> media-tribe@googlegroups.com, raja.mujt...@gmail.com,
> good.governa...@gmail.com, general.qay...@gmail.com, ratho...@yahoo.com,
> fas...@gmail.com, siro...@fasat.org.pk, nsa...@gmail.com,
> dattaa...@hotmail.com, arsal...@gmail.com, access2serv...@gmail.com,
> baigr...@gmail.com, asadmuni...@yahoo.com, iqbalshafis...@yahoo.com,
> ssms...@yahoo.com, brigla...@yahoo.co.uk, brigmahm...@hotmail.com,
> majorshahidreh...@gmail.com, y...@rozan.org, f.wa...@yahoo.com,
> grb...@hotmail.com, hl_me...@hotmail.com, haroonwa...@yahoo.com,
> hasanmuizu...@gmail.com, hashim.ha...@gmail.com, ik...@huzaimaikram.com,
> im...@brain.net.pk, mi...@mobilink.blackberry.com, ulhaq.i...@gmail.com,
> iqbalid...@hotmail.com, irshadpira...@gmail.com, punhalpk2...@yahoo.com,
> khalid.rafi...@yahoo.com, hsn...@rogers.com, pip....@hotmail.com,
> manzoorahmadjalalma...@hotmail.com, ahamad...@hotmail.com,
> masal...@hotmail.com, amjad.mirzahuss...@ntlworld.com, mura...@gmail.com,
> mushtaqpira...@yahoo.com, muzaffarqura...@hotmail.com, nasimze...@gmail.com,
> drnakhan2...@yahoo.com, parveza...@serversea.com, rabia....@btinternet.com,
> rab...@msn.com, ja...@rifiela.com, saq6...@gmail.com,
> qureshisa2...@yahoo.com, ma...@lisauk.com, sartaj...@yahoo.co.uk,
> msukhera2...@yahoo.com, pakistanoverseaslea...@hotmail.com, halo...@mac.com,
> ranasi...@hotmail.com, gilania...@gmail.com, barryma...@hotmail.com
>
> There was no full control of Afghanistan and still there is not enough
> Afghan Army to stop Border Crossings but Taliban are not Afghans, who have
> crossed border and have settled in Waziristan. They are Pakistani
> Mercenaries of Pak Army and Pak Army Commandos, who enter Afghanistan to
> Sneak Attack Afghans, NATO, US and Afghan Soldiers. This is why Pakistan
> claims, she has no control over Waziristan.
> This is a lie that Pak Army does not control Pak-Afghan Border because the
> very 1st American, who had wanted to go Afghanistan to kill Osama was
> arrested promptly by Pak Army on Pak Afghan Border. If no American Terrorist
> can cross border, how come tens of thousands of Pakistanis called Taliban
> have?
> Germany says there are 70 Punjabi German Born Young-men are in Pakistan and
> Pak Army has confirmed that they are in Waziristan. How come Pak Army can
> let Foreigners enter Waziristan from Pakistan but can not let just one
> American enter Afghanistan?
> There are reports that hundreds of Mollaa Brain Washed Punjabi Youth born in
> Europe, USA and Canada are in Waziristan getting Terrorist Training. Had
> they all entered from Afghanistan Border?
> Where had US Citizen, Punjabi Brain washed Time Square would be Bomber, who
> has been sentenced to Life Imprisonment in USA had gotten his training from?
> Afghanistan?
> Nothing moves in Pakistan without knowledge of ISI and you want to tell me,
> tens of thousands of Pakistanis can enter Afghanistan and a whole region of
> Waziristan can not be in control of 700,000 strong Pak Army?
> Then, how come whole East Pakistan with more than half of Pak Population was
> in control of Pak Army in just 5 days in 1971?
> How come city of over 10 million Karachi was in control of Pak Army within 2
> days in July, 1992?
> Who is kidding, who?
> You can fool USA but not me or any Knowledgeable Pakistani.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Syed Masud ul Hassan <syedmasu...@yahoo.com>
>
> Was it not the responsibility of Afghan government and NATO forces to stop
> them crossing into Pakistan. When Pakistan is blamed for letting its people
> cross in to Kashmir and India, why not blame Afghan government for letting
> its people cross in to Pakistan.
>
> Who let Osama and his friends escape from Tora Bora?
>
> Masud
>
> --- On *Wed, 10/6/10, S Turkman <turk...@sbcglobal.net>* wrote:
>
> From: S Turkman <turk...@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: THE US EDGES CLOSER TO INVADING PAKISTAN
> To: sajjad_...@hotmail.com, media-tribe@googlegroups.com,
> syedmasu...@yahoo.com, raja.mujt...@gmail.com, good.governa...@gmail.com,
> general.qay...@gmail.com, ratho...@yahoo.com, fas...@gmail.com,
> siro...@fasat.org.pk, nsa...@gmail.com, dattaa...@hotmail.com,
> arsal...@gmail.com, access2serv...@gmail.com, baigr...@gmail.com,
> asadmuni...@yahoo.com, iqbalshafis...@yahoo.com, ssms...@yahoo.com,
> brigla...@yahoo.co.uk, brigmahm...@hotmail.com, majorshahidreh...@gmail.com,
> y...@rozan.org, f.wa...@yahoo.com, grb...@hotmail.com, hl_me...@hotmail.com,
> haroonwa...@yahoo.com, hasanmuizu...@gmail.com, hashim.ha...@gmail.com,
> ik...@huzaimaikram.com, im...@brain.net.pk, mi...@mobilink.blackberry.com,
> ulhaq.i...@gmail.com, iqbalid...@hotmail.com, irshadpira...@gmail.com,
> punhalpk2...@yahoo.com, khalid.rafi...@yahoo.com, hsn...@rogers.com,
> pip....@hotmail.com, manzoorahmadjalalma...@hotmail.com,
> ahamad...@hotmail.com, masal...@hotmail.com, amjad.mirzahuss...@ntlworld.com,
> mura...@gmail.com, mushtaqpira...@yahoo.com, muzaffarqura...@hotmail.com,
> nasimze...@gmail.com, drnakhan2...@yahoo.com, parveza...@serversea.com,
> rabia....@btinternet.com, rab...@msn.com, ja...@rifiela.com,
> saq6...@gmail.com, qureshisa2...@yahoo.com, ma...@lisauk.com,
> sartaj...@yahoo.co.uk, msukhera2...@yahoo.com,
> pakistanoverseaslea...@hotmail.com, halo...@mac.com, ranasi...@hotmail.com,
> gilania...@gmail.com, barryma...@hotmail.com
> Date: Wednesday, October 6, 2010, 11:22 AM
>
> USA had won this war. Pakistan Army restarted it by accommodating her
> defeated Taliban, re-organizing them, start paying them salaries, building
> new Camps for them, re-arming them and then infiltration them back in to
> Afghanistan by the end 2003 instead of arresting them, when they we
> re-entering Pakistan.
> Pak Army got more than $ 8.5 billion worth of US Charity of Military Aid but
> it never had any intention to co-operate with USA in controlling Taliban.
> Its intention was to re-infiltrate Taliban back in to Afghanistan to kill as
> many NATO and US Soldiers that it could so it could start ruling Afghanistan
> again under disguise of Taliban, like before.
> Pakistan Army only arrested Al Qaeda and Taliban to collect the Bounty that
> USA was paying and it collected Bounty for even handing over innocent
> Refugees from China and Central Asia. It never provided any evidence against
> the Terrorists it had handed over to USA. The Purpose was that was, not to
> let USA make any case against them in her courts.
> Pakistan Army's cheating and deceit level was such that after receiving
> Bounties, it got hundreds of Terrorists released from Guantanomo by telling
> USA that its investigation has found that they were innocent. Famous
> Terrorist Baitullah Mehsud and his people were included in those people.
> Back Stabbing Pakistan Army had wanted to make Afghanistan USA's new Vietnam
> and has almost succeeded in doing this using USA's own money just like it
> had built Atomic Bombs on USA's money. JehaaDi Pakistan Army has proven to
> be so Back Stabbing that its own so called 'only Fast Friend' China does not
> trust it. The Poof is, China has found it guilty of training, financing and
> arming Moslim Chinese of Western China in a Terrorist Training Camp near her
> border. China did not care, what Pakistan would say and has occupied Gilgit
> to stop Pakistan Army's that Back Stabbing of her. Do we hear any talk of
> Sovereignty being in jeopardy because of that action of China?
> Has China ever given so much Charity of Aid and Loans to Pakistan to cause
> this?
> No.
> Has Pakistan been saved by China 4 times in the past as had USA (1965, 1971,
> 1999, 2002) … ?
> No.
> But still Pakistan has to cry 'Sovereignty' if USA kills any Terrorists
> inside Pakistan's Border and keep her mouth shut on China occupying a part
> of her country.
> Had China built Pakistan Army from scratch for free, when it used to have
> only 14 Tanks or USA?
> Had China built Pakistan's Military Bases and Airforce Bases for free or
> USA?
> Reply<http://pakpotpourri2.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/the-us-edges-closer-to-...>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Yasmeen Ali <pakpotpou...@gmail.com>
>
> Plz click link given for comments. YAA
> THE US EDGES CLOSER TO INVADING PAKISTANhttp://pakpotpourri2.wordpress.com/2010/10/05/the-us-edges-closer-to-...
>
> By: Eric Margolis
> <http://pakpotpourri2.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/map-of-pakistan1.jpg>
>
> This writer has been warning for years that US and NATO efforts to defeat
> resistance to Western occupation by Afghanistan's fierce Pashtun tribes
> would eventually lead to spreading the conflict into neighboring Pakistan, a
> nation of 175 million.
>
> We've seen it all before in Vietnam. It was then called, "mission creep."
>
> The focus of the Afghan War is clearly shifting south into Pakistan, drawing
> that nation and the United States forces ever closer to a direct
> confrontation. This grim development was as predictable as it was
> inevitable.
>
> This week's fevered warnings from Washington of supposedly imminent
> terrorist attacks in Europe may be aimed at justifying intensifying US
> military operations against Pakistan. If attacks do come in Europe, they
> will most likely be linked to anti-French militant groups in North Africa
> and the Sahara – nothing at all to do with Afghanistan or Pakistan.
>
> Last week, Pakistan temporarily closed the main US/NATO supply route from
> Karachi to the Afghan border at Torkham after the killing of three Pakistani
> soldiers by US helicopter gunships. Three US/NATO fuel supply convoys were
> burned by anti-American militants.
>
> Eighty percent of the supplies of the US-led forces in Afghanistan come up
> this long, difficult route. Along the way, the US pays large bribes to
> Pakistani officials, local warlords, and to Taliban. The cost of a gallon
> of gas delivered to US units in Afghanistan has risen to $800.
>
> US helicopter gunships have staged at least four attacks on Pakistan this
> past week alone, in addition to the mounting number of strikes by CIA drones
> that are inflicting heavy casualties on civilians and tribal militants
> alike. US Special Forces and CIA-run Afghan mercenaries are also
> increasingly active along Pakistan's northwest frontier.
>
> Pakistan's feeble, discredited government has long closed its eyes to CIA's
> drone attacks. Washington does not even seek permission for the raids or
> give advance warning to Islamabad. Pakistan's media claims over 90% of the
> casualties in US air raids are civilians.
> The failing government in Islamabad is caught between two fires. Pakistanis
> are furious and humiliated by the American attacks. Each new assault further
> undermines the inept, US-installed Zardari government. Even Interior
> Minister Rehman Malik, the government's strongman, protested last week's US
> attacks.
>
> But Pakistan is on the edge of economic collapse after its devastating
> floods. Islamabad is now totally reliant on $2 billion annual US aid, plus
> tens of millions more "black" payments from CIA. Washington has given
> Islamabad $10 billion since 2001, most of which goes to renting 140,000
> Pakistani troops to support the US-led Afghan war. CIA also has 3,000
> mercenaries operating inside Pakistan.
>
> As Osama bin Laden just pointed out in a new audio tape, the Muslim nations
> have been derelict in coming to Pakistan's aid. He blamed the massive
> flooding in Pakistan on global warming.
>
> An influential former Pakistani chief of staff, Gen. Mirza Aslam Beg, just
> demanded Pakistan's air force shoot down US drones and helicopters violating
> his nation's sovereignty. His sentiments are widely shared in Pakistan's
> increasingly angry military.
>
> Pakistan's senior generals are being blasted as "American stooges" by some
> of the media and are losing respect among Pakistanis. A video this week of
> the execution of six civilians by army troops has further damaged the army's
> good name.
>
> However, Washington's view is very different. Pakistan is increasingly
> branded insubordinate, ungrateful for billions in aid, and a potential enemy
> of US regional interests. Many Americans consider Pakistan more of a foe
> than ally. The limited US financial response to Pakistan's flood was a sign
> of that nation's poor repute in North America.
>
> Fears are growing in Washington and in Europe that the nine-year Afghan War
> may be lost. American popular opinion has turned against the war. The
> Pentagon fears a failure in Afghanistan will humiliate the US military and
> undermine America's international power. In short, just what happened to the
> Soviet Union in Afghanistan.
>
> America's foreign policy establishment is venting its anger and frustration
> over the failing Afghan War by lashing out at Pakistan and, as well, the
> US-installed Karzai regime in Kabul.
>
> Pakistan's President, Asif Ali Zardari, is seen in Washington as hopeless
> and incompetent. Full US attention is now on Pakistan's military, the de
> facto government, and its respected but embattled commander, Gen. Ashfaq
> Kayani, whose tenure was just extended under US pressure. Kayani is still
> regarded as an "asset" by Washington. But like Zardari, he is caught between
> American demands and outraged Pakistanis – plus concerns about the threat
> from India and Delhi's machinations in Afghanistan. The recent upsurge of
> violence in Indian-ruled Kashmir has intensified these dangerous tensions
> between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan.
>
> The neoconservatives in Washington and their media allies again claim
> Pakistan is a grave threat to US interests and to Israel. Pakistan must be
> declawed and dismembered, insist the neocons. Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is
> reportedly being targeted for seizure or elimination by US Special Forces.
>
> There is also talk in Washington of dividing Afghanistan into Pashtun, Tajik
> and Uzbek mini-states, as the US has done in Iraq, Could Pakistan be next
> for this divide and conquer treatment? Little states are easier to rule or
> intimidate than big ones. Many Pakistanis believe the United States is bent
> on dismembering their nation. Some polls show Pakistanis now regard the
> United States as a greater enemy than India.
>
> Now that America is in full mid-term election frenzy, expect more calls for
> tougher US military action in "AfPak." Already unpopular politicians are
> terrified of being branded "soft on terrorism" and failing to maximally
> support US military campaigns. Flag waving replaces sober thought.
>
> If polls are right and Republicans achieve a major win, it's likely there
> will be more and deeper US air and land attacks into Pakistan. The Pentagon
> is convinced it can still defeat resistance by Taliban and its allies "if
> only we can go after their sanctuaries in Pakistan," as one general told me.
>
> Where have we heard this before? Why in Cambodia and Laos, that's where,
> during the Vietnam War. Frustrated US commanders expanded the war into
> Cambodia and Laos to go after Communist base camps. The war spread; these
> two small nations were largely destroyed, but the war was ultimately lost.
>
> Victory in war is achieved by concentration of forces, not spreading them
> ever thinner and wider.
>
> But our imperial generals seem determined to blunder into a nation of 175
> million hostile people without any clear strategy. Unable to subdue the
> Pashtun tribes of Afghanistan, they are now attacking the Pashtun tribes of
> Pakistan. America does not need more enemies.
>
> (Eric S. Margolis is an award-winning, internationally syndicated columnist.
> His articles appear in the New York Times, the International Herald Tribune,
> the Los Angeles Times, Times of London, the Gulf Times, the Khaleej Times
> and other news sites in Asia.He is a regular contributor to The Huffington
> Post, Lew Rockwell and Big Eye. He appears as an expert on foreign affairs
> on CNN, BBC, France 2, France 24, Fox News, CTV and
> CBC).<http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=pakpotpourri2.wordpress.co...>
>
> Rate This
>
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