Re: Reply to Keith in Tampa on Gays

Why do you think that EVERY person on this board (except you) thinks your position is such a joke....

again are you truly that ignorant ??

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:

The minute the court struck down DADT it was NO LONGER THE LAW OF THE LAND.......

unless appealed and a stay was granted.... Obama did just that within the time frame allowed.... 

On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:

To repeat yet again, The Department of Justice is obliged to enforce
existing laws, even when the Administration disagrees with those laws.

On 12/13/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mark-
>>
>> I disagree, and I  I call your unsubstantiated and ill-informed ideas.
>>
>> President Obama wants DADT repealed by the Congress, but the
>> Republican Obstructionists in the Senate, led by John McCain, have
>> bocked repeal twice by abusing the 60 vote cloture rule.  If the new
>> stand alone bill also fails, the next step to repeal will likely come
>> from the courts.
>>
>
> Tommy, It was in the courts... the courts found DADT unconstitutional....
> Obama appealed the decision (essentially saying the law is constitutional)
> If the appeal is dropped DADT is GONE.
>
> From Left wing huffington Post
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/09/dont-ask-dont-tell-unconstitutional-ruled-judge_n_711508.html
>
> http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/09/24/another-federal-judge-holds-dont-ask-dont-tell-policy-uncon/
>
> READ and try to UNDERSTAND both articles>>>Then read the following from the
> "Gay American Blog
>
> http://gay.americablog.com/2010/09/if-obama-doesnt-appeal-dadt-case-dadt.html
>
> Obama DID appeal........
> http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/10/reports_doj_will_ask_for_stay_of_dadt_injunction_p.php
>
> To not KNOW this is uninformed and ludicrous considering your blather.
>
>>
>> You obviously cannot read simple English.
>>
>> Keith does not want DADT repealed. He believes that gays will dress in
>> chaps and drag, molest and proposition straight troops,  and harm the
>> military. Keith's dirty and homophobic mind is in the gutter on this
>> issue.
>>
>
> That is far from what he said and not at all what he fights for daily in his
> work...You are talking from pure ignorance.
>
>>
>> You are wrong about DOMA, which is a federal law enacted by Congress.
>> Congress can most certainly act to repeal that law. Federal law trumps
>> State law.
>>
> \
> Section 3 of DOMA was found unconstitutional and has NO effect on the
> several states.
>
>>
>> Concerning ENDA, gays should not be discriminated against in hiring
>> simply for being gay or transgendered, but they are. ENDA is
>> necessary.
>>
>
> No law can tell me to bring anything or anyone into my workplace that the
> existing employees would find disconcerting. All I have to do is NOT give my
> reasons for NOT hiring.
>
>
>>
>> UAFA is needed to prevent same gender spouses of immigrants from being
>> deported, as many are. This is not "stepping on states toes" as you
>> falsely and flippantly claim.
>>
>
> Indeed it is... if state law does not allow same sex unions they may not be
> afforded that status in the law so long as they reside in the prohibiting
> states jurisdiction. This was upheld by the Supreme court.
>
> Do you NOT read ??
>
>>
>> When States do the wrong thing and discriminate or codify harmful
>> laws, the Federal Government can, should, and frequently does step in
>> and trump those laws.
>>
>> I disagree with you on all counts.
>>
>
> Please post whatever source you have that supports your position.
>
>>
>>
>> On 12/13/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Tommy,
>> >
>> > No, he like I call your unsubstantiated and ill-informed ideas, such as
>> your
>> > refusal to see that it is Obama and the Dems (by filing an appeal) that
>> are
>> > keeping DADT in place. You obviously either can't read simple English or
>> > only read sites and sources that do nothing but spin.
>> >
>> > You have yet, in all your rants, to accept the FACT that all it takes is
>> one
>> > 10 second call from Obama to end his appeal and permanently kill DADT.
>> Why
>> > is that ??
>> >
>> > I don't know of a single poster on this forum that does not want DADT
>> > repealed... do you ??
>> >
>> > As far as DOMA is concerned it was ruled unconstitutional on the federal
>> > level... there is NOTHING congress can do. The several States have the
>> right
>> > to enact laws about this as they see fit. It is now and has always been
>> > a
>> > state permit to be married.. the try by the Federal Gov. to intervene in
>> ANY
>> > way was dismissed permanently.  The people of each and every right have
>> the
>> > absolute right to vote on what "permits" are issued and to whom in each
>> and
>> > every jurisdiction. Democracy is a bitch, huh ?
>> >
>> > As to ENDA, If I don't like someone or something about them why would I
>> hire
>> > them ?? Just to cause problems of one sort or another among my existing
>> > employees ?? I do not need nor will I ever give a reason for NOT hiring
>> > someone, nor can I be compelled to do so. But of the 260 largest
>> companies
>> > in the US none have ever been accused of gender or sexual bias in
>> > hiring,
>> so
>> > where is the complaint ?? Again, the Federal statute is already
>> interpreted
>> > in your favor so why should congress act ??*****&However, in 1998, the
>> > administration of President Bill
>> > Clinton<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton> interpreted
>> > the Civil Service Reform Act of
>> > 1978<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Service_Reform_Act_of_1978>,
>> > prohibiting federal government workplace discrimination "on the basis of
>> > conduct not related to job performance", as meaning sexual orientation
>> [as a
>> > factor not related to job performance], and issued an executive order to
>> > more strongly cover theexecutive
>> > branch<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_branch>,
>> > over which the President has more
>> > control.[8]<
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Non-Discrimination_Act#cite_note-7
>> >
>> > In
>> > 2009 Barack Obama did the same for gender identity. However, remedies
>> > pursued under this law are limited.*****
>> >
>> > UAFA is once again the Feds trying to  step on State toes... one may not
>> be
>> > a US citizen (unless born that way) without first becoming a citizen of
>> > a
>> > state ... and "marriage" and that which constitutes it is a State NOT
>> > Federal prerogative.
>> >
>> > Now would you like to call me names and slur me as well for having
>> > quoted
>> > Black Letter Law to you or would you like to actually have a discussion
>> and
>> > offer some semblance of proofs that uphold your position on these
>> matters??
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Markie Mark-
>> >>
>> >> Keith asked me to show taht he is indeed a hateful liar, pufveyor of
>> >> smear, and a homophobe.
>> >> He asked for this post. It was his request.
>> >>
>> >> You are mistaken, it was the answer to a requeat, and not an ""ad
>> >> Hominem" attack".
>> >>
>> >> Keith has called me names and insulted me frequently in this forum.
>> >> He has called me "asshole" "moombat" "marxixt" "Young Tommy" and other
>> >> insulting names here.
>> >>
>> >> When Keith offers me an apology for those slurs, and recants his
>> >> homophobic lies about gay people and Don't Ask Don't Tell, I will
>> >> consider refraining from being critical of his hate, lies, false
>> >> smear, Reich wing politics, and his blatant homophobia and oppositiont
>> >> o the repeal of DADT, DOMA, passage of ENDA, UAFA, Full civil marriage
>> >> equality nationwide, a national  Ant-bullying law, and The American
>> >> Equality Bill for civil rights equality and non-discrimination.
>> >>
>> >> These are not special rights, as keith falsely claims, they are EQUAL
>> >> rights.
>> >>
>> >> On 12/13/10, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Tommy,
>> >> >
>> >> > What you just posted is purely an "ad Hominem" attack. It is NOT
>> >> > acceptable. You posted personal dislikes and accusations while not
>> >> > disputing a single item in Keith's well thought out and very
>> >> > documented post to you. This is a "Forum" and we accept news and we
>> >> > accept debate, both are normally required to be fact based. Keith did
>> >> > not call you anything in said post. Various sources were cited and
>> >> > studies listed which upheld his position. He stated his personal
>> >> > opinion very clearly.... He could care less what happens behind
>> >> > closed
>> >> > doors, he (and every gay man but you on this forum) despise and find
>> >> > repulsive the happenings at the "Pride Parades" and find there is no
>> >> > excuse for the fringe behavior found there.
>> >> >
>> >> > What you don't know about Keith is that his legal life is spent
>> >> > standing up for civil rights and protecting the likes of you. The
>> >> > fact
>> >> > that he believes in equal rights for all and "special rights" for no
>> >> > one seems to be lost on you. It is not the minds of men that need
>> >> > changed... it is the hearts of men. This can NOT be accomplished in
>> >> > your way... Your way is absolutely counter-productive to your own
>> >> > "cause". That you can't see this is really sad.
>> >> >
>> >> > If you can dispute any of the things Keith posted please do so... if
>> >> > all you can do is insult him for laying out the various sources and
>> >> > studies for you to read then please withdraw from the discussion.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Dec 12, 6:34 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Keith-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Your hatred, lies, and false smear are again evident in these false
>> >> >> statements.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I never once said that SPLC was reputable, I simply said that is not
>> a
>> >> >> "Hate Organization" as you falsely stated.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I did not post any "missive full of lies." That is another false
>> >> >> lie.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am most certainly not out of step with reality, that is false
>> >> >> slander, a lie, an insult, and a smear.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am not a "Marxist", that is yet another slanderous false lie, and
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> personal smear.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I am not a "Anti-American", that is yet another slanderous false
>> >> >> lie,
>> >> >> and a personal smear.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mocking me, "making your points", and continuing to spew forth your
>> >> >> homophobic lies and personal attacks is nothing to give thanks for.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You, Keith, should be deeply ashamed of your hate, lies, smear,
>> >> >> personal attacks, and your highly offensive vicious behavior.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Tom,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I  know that for you to think that the Southern Poverty Law Center
>> is
>> >> >> > somehow reputable, and that missive full of lies that you posted
>> >> >> > yesterday,
>> >> >> > is somehow accurate or correct, demonstrates just how out of step
>> you
>> >> >> > are
>> >> >> > with reality, the American people, and in general, America itself.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > You are a Marxist, Anti-American and pretty much out of step with
>> >> >> > reality.
>> >> >> > I thank you for continuing to post to this group, as it is easy
>> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > me
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> > make my points, and mock you and your militant Anti-American
>> >> >> > positions
>> >> >> > that
>> >> >> > you represent!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Again, thanks!!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Keith
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Keith-
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thank you for taking the bait which I presented to you below.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> 1- Lie. The Southern Poverty Law Center is NOT a hate group.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> and 2- Lie. The ten lies Conservatives and Fundies spew out about
>> >> >> >> homosexuality, cited below,  are indeed lies.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Here is  Proof positive that Kieth is a liar, hater, misguided,
>> >> highly
>> >> >> >> homophobic, and purveyor of false Reich wing smear.
>> >> >> >> Proof, as he reqested himself.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Being gay is not a choice or a lifestyle, is perfectly normal in
>> the
>> >> >> >> entire animal kingdom, and most gays are normal, ordinary looking
>> >> >> >> people. Many gays are chaste and celebate. Most gays are not
>> >> >> >> flamboyant, unlike many heterosexuals who flaunt their sexuality
>> and
>> >> >> >> romantic encounters and desires at every turn, holding hands,
>> >> kissing,
>> >> >> >> and worse in public. Gays make excellent parents, far bettter
>> >> >> >> than
>> >> >> >> many dysfunctional heterosexual parents. Most pedophiles are
>> >> >> >> heterosexual. Your homophobic claims are ALL hateful lies.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > Two points.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > First,  the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group.  A
>> >> >> >> > hate
>> >> >> >> > group,
>> >> >> >> that
>> >> >> >> > labels other Americans with despicable tags and ostentatious
>> >> >> >> > misrepresentations.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Second, most if not all of the purpoted ten lies are
>> >> >> >> > prevaricate
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> taken
>> >> >> >> > out of context.  Some of the purported "lies"  are in fact
>> >> >> >> > quite
>> >> >> >> accurate.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Tommy News <
>> tommysn...@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative
>> >> >> >> >> Hate
>> >> >> >> >> Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective
>> >> >> >> >> by Kathy on 29. Nov, 2010 in MUST READS, Please Be Nicer,
>> >> >> >> >> Uncategorized
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> As a follower of Jesus who takes very seriously the commands
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> love,
>> >> >> >> >> be merciful and "spend" myself on justice, I've struggled for
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> week
>> >> >> >> >> with this post about the designation of  the Family Research
>> >> Council
>> >> >> >> >> (FRC) as a Hate Group. I am a swirl of anger and shame and
>> >> >> >> >> relief.
>> >> I
>> >> >> >> >> have waited over a week to write and post this so that I could
>> >> >> >> >>  check
>> >> >> >> >> myself and make sure it's the Jesus-kind of anger motivating
>> me.
>> >> By
>> >> >> >> >> speaking out, I will be going directly against what appears to
>> be
>> >> >> >> >> good, sound and sacred. So be it. Deceit and hatred wrapped in
>> a
>> >> >> >> >> lovely robe and carrying a Holy Text is a horrible,
>> >> >> >> >> blasphemous
>> >> >> >> >> offense.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> In December 2010, the Family Research Council (FRC) was placed
>> on
>> >> >> >> >> Southern Poverty Law Center's (SPLC) list of Hate Groups. In
>> >> amongst
>> >> >> >> >> 932 designated active hate groups in the United States which
>> >> >> >> >> include:
>> >> >> >> >> neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, White Supremacists, White
>> Nationalists,
>> >> >> >> >> Black
>> >> >> >> >> Separatists, Racist Skinheads, Holocaust Deniers,
>> >> Neo-Confederates,
>> >> >> >> >> Anti-Immigrationists and Anti-Gay groups, there is listed the
>> >> Family
>> >> >> >> >> Research Council.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Eighteen of  SPLC's Hate Groups are anti-gay.  For absolute
>> >> clarity,
>> >> >> >> >> deeming homosexuality as "unbiblical" will not earn an
>> >> organization
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> spot on the Hate Groups list. But, continuous dissemination of
>> >> known
>> >> >> >> >> falsehoods and the repeated, groundless demonizing of gay,
>> >> lesbian,
>> >> >> >> >> bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people will score a group an
>> >> >> >> >> uncoveted
>> >> >> >> >> position on the list.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I listened to Tony Perkins, President of FRC, on Fox and
>> Friends
>> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> he
>> >> >> >> >> responded to the dishonor announced last week on being place
>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> SPLC's Hate Groups list.  I talked to my computer screen and
>> >> boiled
>> >> >> >> >> at
>> >> >> >> >> his smiling, what-me? attitude. No, Mr. Perkins, FRC is not on
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> list because you are a conservative group. Your actions have
>> >> placed
>> >> >> >> >> you there. No, Mr. Perkins, the left is not trying to shut
>> >> >> >> >> down
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> debate or take away your freedom of religion.  GLBT people are
>> >> >> >> >> fighting for what the mascot-version-God aside you says they
>> >> >> >> >> deserve—equality.  Religious straight conservatives (and I am
>> >> >> >> >> one)
>> >> >> >> >> will still be able to get married, have children, serve in the
>> >> >> >> >> military and attend houses of worship of their choice.  No one
>> >> wants
>> >> >> >> >> to strip us of any of those rights; they just want the same
>> >> rights,
>> >> >> >> >> not special rights, not more rights, not gay rights—the same
>> >> rights.
>> >> >> >> >> Mr. Perkins, you drag God into your battle as an accomplice
>> and,
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> me, that is even more despicable than your messages. You use
>> God
>> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> your validation, saying you are fighting to protect His
>> >> >> >> >> Judeo-Christian values.  You and FRC deserve to be called
>> >> dangerous
>> >> >> >> >> and hateful; you and FRC have earned it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> FRC, regrettably, is not the only anti-gay group on the SPLC
>> Hate
>> >> >> >> >> List.  They are joined, most notably, by:  Abiding Truth, run
>> by
>> >> >> >> >> Scott
>> >> >> >> >> Lively (outlined in a post "On Scott Lively and the "Kill the
>> >> >> >> >> Gays
>> >> >> >> >> Bill"  (in) Fame" that  I wrote after a long personal series
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> exchanges with him), American Family Association  (AFA),
>> >> >> >> >> Concerned
>> >> >> >> >> Women for America (CWA) and National Organization for Marriage
>> >> >> >> >> (NOM).
>> >> >> >> >> All are dispensers of false accusations, myths and lies about
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> people. I have spent over five years as an active
>> advocate/friend
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> the GLBT community, especially the gay/trans Christians and,
>> over
>> >> >> >> >> twenty five years as a devout follower of Jesus.  I have feet
>> in
>> >> >> >> >> both
>> >> >> >> >> the conservative Christian world and the GLBT world.  I am in
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> unique
>> >> >> >> >> position to assess the controversy. The lies about gay people
>> >> >> >> >>  really
>> >> >> >> >> hurt in a deep spot in me. Lies that substantiate the "right"
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> discriminate.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Here are the top ten myths and lies presented by FRC, CWA, AFA
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> NOM, (I won't even touch Scott Lively's ramblings here. Read
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> blogpost . He is widely agreed to be in the same special
>> grouping
>> >> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> >> the Westboro Baptist Church).  I follow each lie with a short
>> >> >> >> >> commentary and link to where I have written about that topic
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> past.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 1.    People make a choice to be gay. If you know any/many
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> >> and you have listened to them, you would not entertain this
>> >> >> >> >> statement
>> >> >> >> >> as true.  This is a pivotal statement used by anti-gay groups
>> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> the     time. It is simple and it is powerful.  Here is why.
>>  If
>> >> >> >> >> being
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT is a choice, then it is  a conduct.  Conduct is not
>> >> >> >> >> protected
>> >> >> >> >> by
>> >> >> >> >> law. But, a class of people, a status of people, is protected
>> by
>> >> >> >> >> law.
>> >> >> >> >> If these conservative groups can get us to believe that being
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> a choice, then they can hope to withhold civil rights from
>> >> gay/trans
>> >> >> >> >> people. Again, conduct is not protected but classes of people
>> are
>> >> >> >> >> protected.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This house of cards and  lies are starting to tumble down
>> >> >> >> >> however.
>> >> >> >> >> In
>> >> >> >> >> the Supreme Court, a ruling was released on June 28, 2010 for
>> >> >> >> >> Christian Legal Society(CLS) at University of California,
>> >> >> >> >> Hastings
>> >> >> >> >> School of Law v Martinez. CLS contented that they were
>> >> >> >> >> discriminating
>> >> >> >> >> against a behavior, the homosexuality of a perspective member,
>> >> when
>> >> >> >> >> they denied admission to the group.  We are all clear that
>> state
>> >> >> >> >> money
>> >> >> >> >> and property cannot be used to discriminate against a class of
>> >> >> >> >> people,
>> >> >> >> >> but CLS said this was about behavior.  In siding with
>> >> >> >> >> Martinez,
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> Supreme Court decision called GLBT people a "class"; this is
>> >> >> >> >> huge,
>> >> >> >> >> huge. The Supreme Court has now designated GLBT people as a
>> >> >> >> >> class,
>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >> a behavior, not a conduct.  A group of people.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Forget all the myths and bigotry some groups will use to
>> >> >> >> >> discriminate
>> >> >> >> >> against GLBT people, the Supreme Court (and every recognized
>> >> >> >> >> American
>> >> >> >> >> medical, counseling and psychiatric group) understands that
>> >> >> >> >> homosexuality/transgenderness is not a choice. They  are a
>> class
>> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> status of people.  With that designation, equality will come.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I find it exceedingly sad that the State is leading the charge
>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> social justice when God told His people over 2,700 years ago
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> book of Isaiah to "spend" themselves on justice issues.
>> >> >> >> >> (Isaiah
>> >> 58:
>> >> >> >> >> 6-12)  The courts are now leading the way to end this
>> inequality.
>> >> It
>> >> >> >> >> should have been Christians churches.  We have been here
>> >> >> >> >> before
>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> issues of equality for women and Black Americans. God help us;
>> >> Your
>> >> >> >> >> people betrayed a mandate and used Your name to validate
>> >> >> >> >> discrimination.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 2.    People become homosexual because they were sexually
>> abused
>> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> children or had distant father/over bearing mother or some
>> >> variation
>> >> >> >> >> on bad parenting. GLBT children are no more abused or subject
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> poor
>> >> >> >> >> role models than heterosexual children. Fifteen to twenty five
>> >> >> >> >> percent
>> >> >> >> >> of all girls were sexually abused and seven to fifteen percent
>> of
>> >> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> boys. There is no scientific evidence to link abuse and
>> >> orientation.
>> >> >> >> >> None. This myth has burdened parents of GLBT children with a
>> >> >> >> >> guilt
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> shame that they somehow caused their children's orientation.
>> >>  Shame
>> >> >> >> >> and blame.  And, a lie.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 3.    Sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy
>> >> >> >> >> has
>> >> been
>> >> >> >> >> rejected by all the established and reputable American
>> >> >> >> >> medical,
>> >> >> >> >> psychological, psychiatric and professional counseling
>> >> >> >> >> organizations.
>> >> >> >> >> The overwhelming majority of people that have "changed" have:
>> >> chosen
>> >> >> >> >> to be celibate, were bisexual and not exclusively homosexual,
>> or
>> >> >> >> >>  opt
>> >> >> >> >> to live a "straight" life to adhere to strong religious and
>> >> >> >> >> social
>> >> >> >> >> pressures. ( Read my post about Sexual Orientation . ) Even
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> leader
>> >> >> >> >> of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus,
>> >> >> >> >> said
>> >> >> >> >> just this week that he still is attracted to men. This is my
>> >> >> >> >> personal
>> >> >> >> >> belief,  I would say, that if it were not for his paycheck,
>> >> >> >> >> status
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> books, he would be more truthful.  I have two close friends
>> >> >> >> >> who
>> >> were
>> >> >> >> >> leaders/founders of Exodus and they are transparent in telling
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> stories of the lies and lack of integrity in the Exodus- type
>> >> >> >> >> message.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I have personally interviewed both of them (Michael Bussee and
>> >> >> >> >> Darlene
>> >> >> >> >> Bogle ) and this reparative sex industry is a sham and a money
>> >> >> >> >> machine.  It does not work. I do not know one, not one person
>> who
>> >> >> >> >> has
>> >> >> >> >> changed sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual.
>> >> >> >> >> Not
>> >> one.
>> >> >> >> >> Have there been cases where some sexual abuse caused a skewed
>> >> sexual
>> >> >> >> >> view that was corrected? Sure. I would place that in the less
>> >> >> >> >> than
>> >> >> >> >> 1%
>> >> >> >> >> realm.  Go to Beyond Ex-Gay and Box Turtle Bulletin for
>> >> >> >> >> reparative
>> >> >> >> >> therapy stories. The leaders of ex-gay ministries will never
>> say
>> >> you
>> >> >> >> >> can change orientation; they appear to say that, but listen.
>> >> >> >> >> They
>> >> >> >> >> even know it is a lie.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 4.    Efforts to change someone's sexual orientation from
>> >> homosexual
>> >> >> >> >> to heterosexual are not harmful nor unethical. Oh really?
>>  Being
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> is a status, not a behavior or "lifestyle" (this word drives
>> >> >> >> >> me
>> >> >> >> >> batty!). Constant pressure to change the core of a person is a
>> >> >> >> >> violation of humanity and it is an abuse. Telling someone who
>> is
>> >> >> >> >> same-sex attracted that they must change who they are to be
>> >> >> >> >> acceptable
>> >> >> >> >> to family, society, God is harmful and unethical.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Ask an alcoholic or drug addict to get clean and you will see
>> >> >> >> >> benefit.
>> >> >> >> >> Ask an adulterer to stop cheating and you see benefit.  Go on
>> and
>> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> down the list of "bad behaviors" and encourage folks to
>> eliminate
>> >> >> >> >> them
>> >> >> >> >> and you will see life and good. Then, apply this "you must
>> change
>> >> >> >> >> your
>> >> >> >> >> orientation" attitude and dictate to a GLBT person, and you
>> will
>> >> see
>> >> >> >> >> loneliness, depression, isolation and shame.  I am sure people
>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> well intentioned in wanting others to change and live "the
>> >> >> >> >> good
>> >> >> >> >> life"
>> >> >> >> >> of heterosexuality.  I could not change my orientation, yet,
>> >> >> >> >> we
>> >> ask
>> >> >> >> >> others to change theirs. For our good. For their destruction.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 5.    Homosexuals experience a higher level of psychological
>> >> >> >> >> disorders
>> >> >> >> >> than do heterosexuals. Really? Reject anyone  repeatedly and
>> from
>> >> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> directions and from all societal institutions and you set them
>> up
>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> personal destruction.  We have done an excellent job of
>> >> >> >> >> sending
>> >> out
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> message of less-thanism from every corner of society to the
>> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> community–from churches, government, military and schools.
>>  Want
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> decrease the shame, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts
>> and
>> >> >> >> >> loneliness imposed on GLBT people?  Stop the rejection.
>> >>  Incredibly
>> >> >> >> >> simplistic.  Be loving, be accepting, be a safe place.  Love,
>> >> >> >> >> acceptance and security. That is all we each ask for.  Try
>> >> extending
>> >> >> >> >> it and watch the "psychological disorders" melt away.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 6.   Children raised by homosexuals are not as healthy as
>> >> >> >> >> children
>> >> >> >> >> raised by heterosexuals and,  they suffer harm. First, all
>> >> >> >> >> studies
>> >> >> >> >> show children do better with two parents, two, not a male and
>> >> >> >> >> female,
>> >> >> >> >> two parents. Want to protect children? Start by not getting
>> >> divorced
>> >> >> >> >> and letting them have two, engaged, in-the-same-house parents.
>> >> >> >> >>  Next,
>> >> >> >> >> the majority of the children that I personally know in gay
>> >> >> >> >> male
>> >> >> >> >> couple
>> >> >> >> >> families are adopted children.  Disposed-of children that exit
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> foster/state systems into these loving homes.  In lesbian
>> couple
>> >> >> >> >> families, many of the children are their own children and they
>> >> >> >> >> should
>> >> >> >> >> be with their Mom. Let Mom have a legal partner for the
>> security
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> those children. Two parents.  No, none, zero studies exist to
>> >> state
>> >> >> >> >> that children raised in same-sex couple families are harmed or
>> >> >> >> >> suffer
>> >> >> >> >> any more than we heterosexual parents all-stars effect them.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The courts asked the plaintiffs for  proof of this accusation
>> of
>> >> >> >> >> damage to children in same-sex parenting homes in the Prop 8
>> case
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> California. This was the big opportunity to lay it out for all
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> see
>> >> >> >> >> and guess what?  No evidence was presented.  None. You can lie
>> >> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >> >> want on TV and in sound bites, but in court, you must bring
>> >> >> >> >> proof.
>> >> >> >> >>  No
>> >> >> >> >> proof was offered. Want to make the home life of children
>> >> healthier?
>> >> >> >> >> Let them have two parents. Let GLBT couples  marry and  create
>> >> >> >> >> families and  security for their children.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> I have specifically  and intentionally spent time with my GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> friends
>> >> >> >> >> and their children to observe. As a mother of two grown
>> children
>> >> >> >> >> (both straight), I am impressed with what I have seen. GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> people
>> >> >> >> >> do
>> >> >> >> >> not want to destroy family, they want to create it, with their
>> >> kids
>> >> >> >> >> and with the tossed away kids.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 7.   Homosexuals are more likely to molest children than
>> >> >> >> >> heterosexuals. This lie can make a person crazy because it is
>> >> >> >> >> such
>> >> >> >> >> an
>> >> >> >> >> offensive lie. This repeated nonsense has damaged
>> >> >> >> >> relationships
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT people within their families and extended families.
>> >> >> >> >> "Don't
>> >> let
>> >> >> >> >> Aunt Lesbian near the kids and surely not Uncle Gay. They will
>> >> touch
>> >> >> >> >> our kids inappropriately and use them sexually." Molestation
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> children is NOT an issue of orientation. Repeat, repeat,
>> repeat.
>> >> >> >> >> Molestation of children is about being attracted to a child's
>> >> >> >> >> age,
>> >> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >> gender of the child or the abuser.  Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> In a 2008 study of medical records in a Denver emergency room
>> in
>> >> >> >> >> cases
>> >> >> >> >> of molestation, 1% had been attributed to GLBT people.  The
>> >> >> >> >> overwhelming majority of  molestation is inflicted by
>> >> >> >> >> heterosexual
>> >> >> >> >> relatives and friends. This lie has to stop. FRC and the
>> >> >> >> >> others
>> >> >> >> >> quote
>> >> >> >> >> and requote 87% of all cases of pedophilia involve a gay
>> person.
>> >> >> >> >> WHERE do they get this stuff?  The one report they keep
>> >> >> >> >> quoting
>> >> with
>> >> >> >> >> assurance has been thrown out as sloppy and false work by any
>> >> expert
>> >> >> >> >> of repute.  Yet, the rhetoric they call the truth  is robbing
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT
>> >> >> >> >> people of family, and family of their gay relatives.
>> Destruction
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> family?  Yes. For a lie.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 8.    Homosexuals are not  seriously disadvantaged by
>> >> >> >> >> discrimination.
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT couples are denied 1,138 rights that a married
>> heterosexual
>> >> >> >> >> couple enjoys under the law. They are discriminated against in
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> military, in families, in churches and in society. That
>> >> >> >> >> appears
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> pretty serious disadvantage to me.  Imagine, 1,138 rights
>> denied
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> GLBT couple that wants to commit to love and marriage and
>> cannot.
>> >> >> >> >> Count to 1,138 and ask yourself: is this not discrimination?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 9.     Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed
>> >> >> >> >> relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a
>> >> >> >> >> partner,
>> >> even
>> >> >> >> >> if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> lifetime, than are heterosexuals. Chicken or egg? Tell people
>> >> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> less-than and see what you get.  Marriage is an institution in
>> >> which
>> >> >> >> >> couples establish state protected, church ordained, committed
>> >> >> >> >> relationships. And it is denied to GLBT people.  Take away
>> >> marriage
>> >> >> >> >> from heterosexual couples and imagine the results. Oh, we have
>> >> that,
>> >> >> >> >> heterosexual people living together.  They don't seem to have
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> success rate of marriage. Serial heterosexual monogamy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Marriage brings protection, a stronger bond of commitment and
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> support of  family and a community. GLBT people do not enjoy
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> security of legal marriage in all 50 states.  They do not grow
>> up
>> >> >> >> >> thinking "who will I marry?".  Why bother, it is not a reality
>> >> >> >> >> (yet).
>> >> >> >> >> So, even when we do extend the right to marry to GLBT people,
>> >> there
>> >> >> >> >> will be a season of transition.  And, in time, there will be
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> similar percentages of success/failure in same-sex marriages
>> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> heterosexual marriages.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> 10.     GLBT people cannot be Christians. I devote an entire
>> >> >> >> >> blogsite
>> >> >> >> >> Canyonwalker Connections to this issue. The best starting
>> >> >> >> >> place
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> VERSES tab.  If you believe this myth, you are ignoring a
>> >> >> >> >> movement
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> God that is exploding around the world. GLBT Christians are
>> >> growing
>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> number, in spiritual maturity, in gifting and it is happening
>> >> fast.
>> >> >> >> >> The best way to see proof  is to visit an affirming
>> congregation.
>> >> Go
>> >> >> >> >> towww.Welcomingchurches.org<http://www.welcomingchurches.org/>
>> <
>> >> >> >>http://www.welcomingchurches.org/>, call  an
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> - Hide quoted text -
>> >> >> >> >> affirming pastor in your area
>> >> >> >> >> from the list and go see what God is doing in His GLBT
>> children.
>> >>  Of
>> >> >> >> >> course they can be Christians.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Lies are evil.  Lies breed fear.  Myths about people or groups
>> >> >> >> >> become
>> >> >> >> >> the basis for forming ideology about others.  We have done it
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> Native Americans, immigrants over our own history, the Irish,
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> Germans, the Italians, the Jews, the Africans, the Mexicans,
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> Muslims, the Russians, the "others". On and on.  If we repeat
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> myth
>> >> >> >> >> enough, maybe it will gain muddy traction and stick. This is
>> what
>> >> >> >> >> FRC
>> >> >> >> >> and other Hate Groups do so well. They demonize the gay
>> >> >> >> >> community.
>> >> >> >> >>  I
>> >> >> >> >> think they actually believe they are good and fighting the
>> >> >> >> >> good
>> >> >> >> >> fight
>> >> >> >> >> and hanging on to all that is sacred and holy.  But, they are
>> >> lying.
>> >> >> >> >> That is discrimination. And, while they are doing it, they are
>> >> >> >> >> causing
>> >> >> >> >> destruction, that is hate. Maybe the public backlash of being
>> >> >> >> >> designated a Hate Group will shame them to reassess their
>> >> >> >> >> message.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Now, the final word as a Christian. I think there is something
>> >> worse
>> >> >> >> >> than making the SPLC's Hate Groups List.  My first concern
>> would
>> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> "am I pleasing God?".  We all, all, have an image of God in
>> >> >> >> >> us.
>> >> >> >> >> We
>> >> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> called to love, respect and serve others. We are called to be
>> >> >> >> >> shining
>> >> >> >> >> lights in which others can see some piece of Jesus. Imagine a
>> >> >> >> >> kicked-out-of-church gay man, a shamed-by-her-family lesbian,
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> suicidal Mormon teen who knows that honesty means losing
>> >> >> >> >> family
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> church, two  men that want desperately to get married and
>> >> >> >> >> build
>> a
>> >> >> >> >> family, a young bisexual girl who cuts herself in the shame
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> pain
>> >> >> >> >> of her sexuality and religious oppression.  God loves every
>> >> >> >> >> one
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> these people, the same way He loves me. God, in His Word, and
>> >> Jesus,
>> >> >> >> >> in His life, told me to treat everyone with equality and love.
>> If
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> church cannot police our own, perhaps God is using secular
>> >> >> >> >> organizations to slap His children upside the head?  Would not
>> be
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> first time. I will stand with, beside and in front of my GLBT
>> >> fellow
>> >> >> >> >> humans to ensure that they gain equality with me.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Family Research Council, you should be more concerned about
>> where
>> >> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >> >> are on God's list of naughty or nice, sheep or goats. And
>> >> >> >> >> Southern
>> >> >> >> >> Poverty Law Center, thank you, really . . .  thank you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> More:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/11/ten-myths-about-the-glbt-c.
>> ..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > By all means Tom!  Go for it!  I think you will be hard pressed
>> to
>> >> >> >> > find
>> >> >> >> > anything of the sort from me!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > We can then review your misguided communiques'; and the hate,
>> >> >> >> > smear
>> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> lies
>> >> >> >> > that you distribute on a daily basis.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > Keith
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Tommy News <
>> tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Well, Shall I then prove this statement a lie and proceeed to
>> >> >> >> >> give
>> >> >> >> >> numerous give examples of your misguided homophobic and
>> political
>> >> >> >> >> hate, false political statement parroting lies, name calling
>> and
>> >> >> >> >> smears? I will oblige.
>> >> >> >> >> Shall I?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> > Tommy, Tommy, Tommy,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > The last thing I do is hate, lie or smear.   Go look in the
>> >> >> >> >> > mirror.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Keith
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Tommy News
>> >> >> >> >> > <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Fine. Then stop your hate, lies, smears, and homophobia,
>> >> >> >> >> >> Keith.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Hey Tom,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Don't even think about bringing our discussions from PF
>> over
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> > HP.
>> >> >> >> >> >> There
>> >> >> >> >> >> > are many members of HP who are members of PF....These
>> >> >> >> >> >> > members
>> >> >> >> >> >> > can
>> >> >> >> >> >> > make
>> >> >> >> >> >> their
>> >> >> >> >> >> > own determination about my purported, "homophobia";   but
>> we
>> >> >> >> >> >> > are
>> >> >> >> not
>> >> >> >> >> >> going
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to get into political discussions in HP, at least for a
>> >> while,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> >> > definitely not during the holiday season.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Keith
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >> >> >> >> >> > From: Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Date: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:54 AM
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Subject: Reply to Keith in Tampa on Gays
>> >> >> >> >> >> > To: historical-pictoral@googlegroups.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >  Keith -
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > I have read your reply to my statements, and here is my
>> >> >> >> >> >> > response
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> you.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > You clearly have a dirty, offensive, and misguided mind.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > You are Wrong again, again, and yet again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > I do not have any hate, lies and smear as you falsely and
>> >> >> >> >> >> > slanderously
>> >> >> >> >> >> > state and insult me over and over and over again in your
>> >> >> >> >> PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >> >> >> > group.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > You and your stated oposition to the repeal of Don't Ask
>> >> Don't
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Tell
>> >> >> >> >> >> > are highly homophobic. Gays in the military most
>> >> >> >> >> >> > certainly
>> >> >> >> >> >> > do
>> >> >> >> >> >> > not
>> >> >> >> go
>> >> >> >> >> >> > around flaunting
>> >> >> >> >> >> > their sexuality. The existing military code of conduct
>> will
>> >> be
>> >> >> >> quite
>> >> >> >> >> >> > adequate to address any behavioral issues by a very few
>> >> >> >> >> >> > after
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > repeal of DADT.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > This explanation you put forth below for your opposition
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> > DADT
>> >> >> >> >> >> > repeal demonstrates your misguided misconceptions
>> >> >> >> >> >> > and your blatant homophobia even further. Your thinking
>> >> >> >> >> >> > is
>> >> not
>> >> >> >> >> >> > at
>> >> >> >> all
>> >> >> >> >> >> > cognitive, it is deeply prejudiced.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Most gays most certainly do NOT put their sexuality at
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> forefront
>> >> >> >> >> >> > of their lives.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > In fact, most choose to hide and surpress their
>> >> >> >> >> >> > sexuality,
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> their
>> >> >> >> >> >> > very essense, due to homophobia, opression, and
>> persecution.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > While
>> >> >> >> >> >> > heterosexuals go around talking about their romantic
>> >> >> >> >> >> > encounters,
>> >> >> >> sex
>> >> >> >> >> >> lives,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > relationships, and crushes etc, ad nauseum, kissing and
>> >> holding
>> >> >> >> hands
>> >> >> >> >> >> > in public and worse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Many gays are chaste and even celebate, and most
>> >> >> >> >> >> > certainly
>> >> >> >> >> >> > do
>> >> >> >> >> >> > NOT
>> >> >> >> >> >> > flaunt their sexuality or dress in a flamboyant manner.
>> Many
>> >> >> >> >> >> > look
>> >> >> >> >> >> > more
>> >> >> >> >> >> > ordinary and conservative than most heterosexuals. There
>> are
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> > few,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > but there are many many more heterosexuals who have
>> >> flamboyant
>> >> >> >> dress
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> > behavior, and unusual sexualities and kinkly fetishes.
>> Women
>> >> >> >> >> >> > who
>> >> >> >> >> >> > dress
>> >> >> >> >> >> > in a provocative manner, and men who over-groom and scent
>> >> >> >> themselves
>> >> >> >> >> >> > for the heterosexual chase. Pinning those
>> >> >> >> >> >> > behaviors soley on a few gays is unfair and false.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Your mischaracterizations, stereotyping, typecasting, and
>> >> mind
>> >> >> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> > gutter  demonstrates your deep prejudice and homophobia.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > You, Keith, are a judgemental prejudiced homophobic
>> >> >> >> >> >> > bigot.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Yes, you are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > On 12/10/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Lil' TommyTomTom,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> This is where your hate, lies and smear get in the way
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> your
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> cognitive
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> thinking.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Because I am opposed to those individuals who put what
>> they
>> >> do
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> bedroom at the forefront of their lives;  in other
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> words,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> because
>> >> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> >> am
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> opposed to those individuals that define their very
>> >> existence
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> by
>> >> >> >> >> their
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> sexuality,  this does not make me a "Homophobe".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> What you do behind closed doors might be wonderful.  I
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> don't
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> know.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> I
>> >> >> >> >> >> will
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> never know.   I don't care what it is that you do
>> sexually.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> I am opposed to those militants who are attempting to
>> force
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> their
>> >> >> >> >> >> > sexuality
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> upon me, and the rest of America.   I am opposed to
>> parades
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> front
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> children with you donned in assless chaps, boas, and/or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> dressed
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Statute of Liberty.   I am opposed to you, and any other
>> >> group
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> entity
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> demanding more rights than what the rest of Americans
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> enjoy,
>> >> >> >> because
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> > who
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> you sleep with.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> You are correct, that there have been Gays in our United
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> States
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> military
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> since 1776.   None of them chose to get out and parade
>> >> around,
>> >> >> >> >> >>  announcing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> who it is that they are boffing or honking on.   This is
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> how
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> it
>> >> >> >> >> should
>> >> >> >> >> >> be.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> KeithInDC
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Tommy News <
>> >> >> >> tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Wrong again Keith.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Your homophobia is showing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Gays have been serving in the military, well,  since
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> before
>> >> >> >> >> Alexander
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> The Great and his lover Hephaesteon.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> The existing military code of conduct should be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> adequate
>> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> any
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> behavior issues from a very few.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> By your logic, heterosexuals should be banned from the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> military
>> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> well due to criminals like Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld,
>> Rove,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> variuus
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> felons, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Please also note that Military Enlistment of Felons
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Doubled
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> under
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Bush Administration.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/military_enlistment_of_.
>> ..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Top Ten American War
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Criminals Living
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Freely Today
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Rense Exclusive
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> By Douglas Herman
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 12-14-5
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> A war crime is a punishable offense, under
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> international
>> >> law,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> violations of the law of war by any person or persons,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> military
>> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> civilian. Every violation of the law of war is a war
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> crime.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Also,
>> >> >> >> >> war
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> crimes are those committed during wartime in violation
>> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> international conventions intended to protect civilian
>> >> >> >> populations
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> prisoners of war. You will note that many on this list,
>> >> >> >> categorized
>> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> war criminals, ironically, are among the most powerful
>> and
>> >> >> >> wealthy
>> >> >> >> >> US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> citizens
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Robert McNamara. Former US Secretary of Defense, helped
>> >> kill
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> approximately 2-3 million, mostly poor Vietnamese,
>> >> Cambodians
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Laotians. Not to mention a sizeable portion of the
>> 58,000
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> dead
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> servicemen pressed into that war. Not to mention that
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> equal
>> >> >> >> number
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US veterans who committed suicide in the years to
>> follow.
>> >> >> >> McNamara
>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> an Elder Statesman now, walking around freely today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Henry Kissinger. Former US Secretary of State, had a
>> hand
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> killings mentioned above. Plus condoned thousands of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> additional
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> killings in Chile, under the sponsorship of US foreign
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> policy.
>> >> >> >>  Won
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. Elder Statesman,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> walking
>> >> >> >> around
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> freely today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> George HW Bush.  Former super spy, former US President,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> first
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> graduate from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> into
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> presidency and bring lessons learned at CIA
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> headquarters
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> directly
>> >> >> >> >> into
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US policy. While serving under Ronald Reagan, helped
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> encourage
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Iraq-Iran war, resulting in deaths of one million
>> people,
>> >> >> >> allowing
>> >> >> >> >> US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> oil and arms dealers to profit greatly.  During the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 'Eighties,
>> >> >> >> >> helped
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> encourage US sponsored military dictators in Latin
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> America,
>> >> >> >> guilty
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> extermination of thousands of ordinary citizens, via
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US-trained
>> >> >> >> >> "death
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> squads."  Conducted pre-emptive war with Panama,
>> resulting
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 1,000-4,000 deaths, simply to topple former CIA
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> henchman
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> drug
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> lord, Manuel Noriega. Elder Statesman, walking around
>> >> freely
>> >> >> >> today,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> basking in limelight.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> George W. Bush. Two term US president, elected using
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> electronic,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> "black box" voting methods that permit no verification
>> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> actual
>> >> >> >> >> vote
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> count. Conducted two pre-emptive wars, resulting in
>> excess
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> 100,000
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US. Iraqi and Afghani deaths.  Condones the use of
>> torture
>> >> as
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> policy. Condones rejection of the Geneva Convention,
>> >> becoming
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> first US president to openly do so. Considers the US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Constitution
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> "A
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Goddamned piece of paper." Embattled Statesman, walking
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> around
>> >> >> >> >> freely
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Dick Cheney. Former US Secretary of Defense, and
>> signator
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> PNAC,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> and current Vice President. Accused mastermind of the
>> 911
>> >> >> >> >> "terrorist"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> attack against the US (unproven), Cheney has been
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> called
>> >> "The
>> >> >> >> Vice
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> President For Torture" by the Washington Post. A
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> staunch
>> >> >> >> supporter
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the Middle Eastern War Without End, Cheney, like
>> Wolfowitz
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Rumsfeld bears particular responsibility for the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> conduct
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> war.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Elder Statesman, walking around freely today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> 8. Paul Wolfowitz. Former US Deputy Secretary of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Defense
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> architect
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> of the Middle Eastern War Without End. Casualties in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> two
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> pre-emptive
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> wars now exceed 100,000 deaths, not including the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> estimated
>> >> >> >> 2,000+
>> >> >> >> >> US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> deaths and 15,000 wounded. Won a Presidential Medal of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Freedom
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> his
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> work and a promotion to the head of the World Bank.
>> Elder
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Statesman,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> walking around freely today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Donald Rumsfeld. US Secretary of Defense during the
>> Middle
>> >> >> >> Eastern
>> >> >> >> >> War
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Without End. A signator of the PNAC document that calls
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> pre-emptive hostile acts of US imperialism conducted by
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> overwhelming
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> military means (War) against weaker nations possessing
>> >> scarce
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> resources.  Aside from the estimated 100,000 Iraqi
>> deaths,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> estimated 15-20,000 US casualties (dead and injured),
>> and
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> untold
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (millions?)
>> who
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> will
>> >> >> >> >> suffer
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> from the effects of depleted uranium in the years to
>> come,
>> >> >> >> Rumsfeld
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> remains convinced the "war on terror" is just. A long
>> time
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> political
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> appointee, Rumsfeld is an Elder Statesman, walking
>> around
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> freely
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Ruppert Murdoch. Token American. Media baron. Never met
>> a
>> >> war
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> he
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> didn't like. Responsible for tens of thousands of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> deaths
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> untold
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> millions of refugees through media encouragement of
>> harsh,
>> >> US
>> >> >> >> >> foreign
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> policy. Owns a sizable chunk of the US news media.
>> Murdoch
>> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> most
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> visible Godfather of the Mainstream News Mafia (MNM).
>> >>  Elder
>> >> >> >> >> Statesman
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> and multi-billionaire news baron, walking around freely
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> today.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Former USAF veteran (Honorably Discharged) and Elder
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Statesman,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Douglas Herman writes regularly for Rense and is the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> author
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> of
>> >> >> >> The
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Guns of Dallas
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>  More:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.rense.com/general69/tpten.htm
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On 12/10/10, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > Two words, a whole bunch of syllables, as to why DADT
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > should
>> >> >> >> NOT
>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > repealed:  "Bradley Manning".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > *According to Bradley's online chats, he was in "an
>> >> awkward
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > place"
>> >> >> >> >> >> both
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > "emotionally and psychologically." So in a snit, he
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > betrayed
>> >> >> >> his
>> >> >> >> >> >> > country
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> by
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > orchestrating the greatest leak of classified
>> >> intelligence
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > U.S.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> history.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > Isn't that in the Army Code of Conduct? You must
>> follow
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > orders
>> >> >> >> at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > all
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> times.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > Exceptions will be made for servicemen in an awkward
>> >> place.
>> >> >> >> Now,
>> >> >> >> >> who
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> wants a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > hug? Waitress! Three more apple-tinis!"
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > *
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Tommy News <
>> >> >> >> >> tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Many Democratic Activists are fighting DADT both in
>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> out
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> courts..
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> On 12/10/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > What part of "in the courts", are you missing?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > On Dec 10, 10:16 am, Tommy News <
>> tommysn...@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Wrong again.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Many Democratic Activists are indeed fighting
>> DADT.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> You are quite mistaken, yet again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> On 12/10/10, GregfromBoston <
>> greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Not in the courts they aren't Tom.  Drop the
>> suit
>> >> and
>> >> >> >> DADT
>> >> >> >> >> AND
>> >> >> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > complete ban vanish.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > On Dec 9, 12:10 pm, Tommy News <
>> >> tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> No, that is false. Many Democrats and actvists
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> fighting
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> AGAINST
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> both.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> On 12/8/10, GregfromBoston <
>> >> greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > I emailed POTUS and told him to drop his
>> >> challenge
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> courts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > It didn't work.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > DOMA too.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > Dems own BOTH!!!  And dems are fighting FOR
>> >> both!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > God this is easy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > On Dec 8, 12:08 pm, Tommy News
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ACTION Alert: Call and Fax your two US
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Senators
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> DADT
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Repeal
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> NOW!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> The Federal Eye: Senate plans procedural
>> vote
>> >> on
>> >> >> >> 'don't
>> >> >> >> >> >> ask,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> don't
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> tell'
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>  Network NewsX Profile
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> View More Activity
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> TOOLBOX
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>  Resize Print E-mail Reprints
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> COMMENT
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> 0 Comments
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> BE THE FIRST TO COMMENT
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> You must be logged in to leave a comment.
>> Log
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> |
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Register
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>  Why Do I Have to Log In Again?
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Log In Again? CLOSEWe've made some updates
>> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> washingtonpost.com
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> 's
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Groups, MyPost and comment pages. We need
>> you
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> verify
>> >> >> >> >> >> your
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> MyPost
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ID
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> by logging in before you can post to the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> new
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> pages.
>> >> >> >> We
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> apologize
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the inconvenience.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>  Discussion PolicyYour browser's settings
>> may
>> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> preventing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> from
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commenting on and viewing comments about
>> this
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> item.
>> >> >> >> See
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> instructions
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for fixing the problem.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Discussion Policy CLOSEComments that
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> include
>> >> >> >> profanity
>> >> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> personal
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> attacks or other inappropriate comments or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> material
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> will
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> removed
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> from the site. Additionally, entries that
>> are
>> >> >> >> unsigned
>> >> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> contain
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "signatures" by someone other than the
>> actual
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> author
>> >> >> >> >> will
>> >> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> removed.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Finally, we will take steps to block users
>> who
>> >> >> >> violate
>> >> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> posting standards, terms of use or privacy
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> policies
>> >> >> >> or
>> >> >> >> >> any
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> other
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> policies governing this site. Please review
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> full
>> >> >> >> >> rules
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> governing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commentaries and discussions. You are fully
>> >> >> >> responsible
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> content that you post.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> By Ed O'Keefe
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Wednesday, December 8, 2010; 11:10 AM
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.)
>> is
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> likely
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> hold
>> >> >> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> procedural vote Wednesday on a bill that
>> would
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> military's

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "don't ask, don't tell" law, but the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> measure
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> is
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> expected
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> fail,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according to Senate Democratic aides and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> advocates
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> ending
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> law.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Reid said this morning he would likely file
>> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> motion
>> >> >> >> >> later
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> today
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> reconsider the annual defense authorization
>> >> bill,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> massive
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> piece
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> legislation that includes language
>> instructing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Pentagon
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> policy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> But holding a vote today would keep several
>> >> >> >> Republicans
>> >> >> >> >> >> from
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> voting
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> proceed, according to aides and activists
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> familiar
>> >> >> >> with
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ongoing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> negotiations who are not authorized to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> speak
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> record.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Republican
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> senators, led by Sen. John McCain
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> (R-Ariz.),
>> >> have
>> >> >> >> said
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> would
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> filibuster attempts to move forward with
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill.
>> >> >> >> >> McCain,
>> >> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vocal
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> critic of a Pentagon study released last
>> week
>> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> topic,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> wants
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> hold more hearings with frontline military
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commanders
>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> senior
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> enlisted officers before voting to repeal
>> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> law.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Holding an ultimately unsuccessful vote
>> today
>> >> has
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> potential
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> further enrage liberal Democrats and gay
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> rights
>> >> >> >> >> activists
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> upset
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> with
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Congressional Democrats and the White House
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> failing
>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> deliver
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> several campaign promises.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> If the procedural vote fails today, "it
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> will
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> impossible
>> >> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> raise
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> money for Senate Democrats that are up in
>> >> 2012,"
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> said
>> >> >> >> >> Fred
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Sainz,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vice
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> president of the Human Rights Campaign, a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> group
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> actively
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> lobbying

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end to the ban. "If Reid likes the majority
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> leader
>> >> >> >> >> title,
>> >> >> >> >> >> he

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> better

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> think twice about the way this is currently
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> set
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> up
>> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> failure."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "We're staring at failure," said another
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> experienced
>> >> >> >> >> >> activist
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> involved
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> with the negotiations, who was not
>> authorized
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> speak
>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> record.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >>  Gay rights groups and some Democratic
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> senators
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> want
>> >> >> >> >> Reid
>> >> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> move
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> forward to consideration of a tax cut
>> >> compromise
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> $1.1
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> trillion
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill to keep the government running before
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> reconsidering
>> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> defense
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> They cite the expected support of moderate
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Republican
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Sens.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Susan
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Collins (Maine) and Scott Brown (Mass.),
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> who
>> >> are
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> willing
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> support
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> repeal if Reid holds the vote after the tax
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> spending
>> >> >> >> >> >> > bills
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> allows for a fair debate process. Despite
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> weeks
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> questions
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> deliberations with Democrats, Collins has
>> yet
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> signal
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> her
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> final
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> intentions or to clarify what a "fair
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> debate
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> process"
>> >> >> >> >> >> means,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to Senate aides and others familiar with
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> negotiations.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Democrats are focused on also securing the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> support
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Sens.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> George
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Voinovich (R-Ohio), Lisa Murkowski
>> (R-Alaska),
>> >> >> >> Richard
>> >> >> >> >> >> Lugar
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> (R-Ind.),
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> John Ensign (R-Nev.) and Olympia Snowe
>> >> (R-Maine),
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according
>> >> >> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Democratic aides.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> The defense bill failed in September to
>> garner
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> 60
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> votes
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> necessary
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to move forward. Wednesday's action would
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> similar
>> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> what
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> occurred
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> in September and would not represent a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> final
>> >> vote
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> issue.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> An unsuccessful vote could lead to several
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> scenarios,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> including

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> efforts to pass repeal of "don't ask, don't
>> >> tell"

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> as
>> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> standalone
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill, adding it to other legislation
>> expected
>> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> pass
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> next

>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> week, or postponing debate on the issue
>> until

>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> new
>> >> >> >> >> year
>> >> >> >> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> start of a Republican-dominated Congress.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> If Congress doesn't act, the Pentagon and
>> gay
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> rights
>> >> >> >> >> >> > advocates
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> have
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> warned that federal judges considering
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> cases
>> >> that
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> challenge
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> constitutionality of the ban could at any
>> time
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> order
>> >> >> >> an
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> immediate
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to the ban, leading to potential chaos for
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> military
>> >> >> >> >> >> > recruiters
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> troops in the field.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> A successful vote -- again, unlikely if it
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> happens
>> >> >> >> >> today,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> according
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> activists -- would put the issue back on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Senate's
>> >> >> >> >> >> formal
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to-do
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> list, making it possible for senators to
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> debate
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vote
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> bill
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> before the end of next week when they plan
>> to
>> >> go
>> >> >> >> home.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> More:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/08/AR201
>> >> .
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> ..
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind
>> at
>> >> a
>> >> >> >> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > Google
>> >> >> >> >> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > For options & help seehttp://
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * Visit our other community
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and
>> vote
>> >> in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at
>> a
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Tommy- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > Google
>> >> >> >> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > For options & help seehttp://
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > * Visit our other community
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > <http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote
>> in
>> >> our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a
>> >> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> Tommy- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > Google
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > For options & help see
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in
>> our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a
>> time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>  For options & help see
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>  > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > For options & help see
>> >> >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> For options & help see
>> >> >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>>http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> Groups.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> For options & help see
>> >> >> >>http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> <
>> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >> >> >>http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> polls.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >>  >>  >>  > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --

>> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >
>> >> > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> Have a great day,
>> >> Tommy
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >>
>> >> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mark M. Kahle H.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> > For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >
>> > * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>
>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark M. Kahle H.
>
> --
> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.


--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
 
* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.