Mike and Nominal in the same place!
Now, if Les can get his head out from his ass, I hope he will join too
I miss Plainol, does he post here?
On Oct 17, 4:32 am, "mike [ proud to be a liberal ] 532 !"
<littlemike...@gmail.com> wrote:
> hey how are doing i haven't seen you around in a while .
>
> On Oct 16, 12:19 pm, nominal9 <nomin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > hi mike.....
> > nominal9
>
> > On Oct 16, 10:03 am, "mike [ proud to be a liberal ] 532 !"
>
> > <littlemike...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > i do not believe in organized religion or "the Church" i believe they
> > > are inventions of men to control other men !
>
> > > On Oct 16, 8:12 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
>
> > > > 3 Reasons Why You Can't Trust a Christian or a Jewby Allan Stevo"Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple."
> > > > Where's this quote come from? A jihadist manual on terror? One of the Surahs of the Koran? Maybe Mao's little red book? Was it spoken by the terrorist prophet himself, Mohammed? No, it comes from the Gospel of Luke.
> > > > It was read to millions of Christians a few Sundays ago in churches around the world. I wonder how many people in the pews heard it and thought "Wow, that really wouldn't sound too good as a sound-bite in the media of the Muslim world" (or in atheist media, or even secular media for that matter). In the same way that lines from the Quran are taken out of context, lines from the Bible can also be taken out of context.Do Christians hate life?Christians that I know personally do not behave as if they hate life. As an industrialized country with such a high level of church attendance, the U.S. is a statistical anomaly. Many Americans identify themselves as Christian, 78% according tothis Gallup poll.We are by multiple measures a Christian country.
> > > > This Christian country of ours has a very high illegal murder rate, especially when compared to other industrialized countries. Preventing those murders is an issue of much contention. This Christian country of ours also has a very high rate of "legal" extraterritorial murder in undeclared war zones all over the world. Those murders are not so difficult to avoid. For example, if an American soldier is not outside of the U.S., that American soldier will not be able to shoot or be shot by anyone outside of the U.S. In reality, despite my loved ones showing no outward signs of hating life, the argument can be made that Christian Americans do hate life based on the behavior of the society in which we live. We Americans tacitly agree to extraterritorial "legal" murders.
> > > > Murder is the ending of life. Surely a case can be made for Christians, at least American Christians, not realizing the gravity of life. I'm unable to argue that life is "hated" as opposed to "disliked" or even worse, simply not appreciated. Or maybe it's just the value of other people's lives that is the problem. I suspect an American does tend to recognize the importance of his or her own life.
> > > > I know quite a few people who call themselves Christians and quite a few who aren't Christians and I don't see a clear hatred of life among the one group more than the other. At its surface, those people I know don't seem to have very effectively followed Jesus' command to "hate…life itself."
> > > > It's a strongly worded statement written in the Bible that doesn't look good as a sound-bite taken out of context, away from the centuries of schools of Biblical scholarship that exists and that many of us now read the Bible through. Perhaps it's intellectually lazy of a person to try to do the same thing with the Quran and to speak like some kind of Quranic scholar because he knows a few ideas from the Quran that he read inUSA Today. I supposed in general we all know better than to trust self-proclaimed authorities. However, the fact that a single person watches the network news or buys a major newspaper indicates that there are many people who are comfortable with putting faith in those self-proclaimed authorities.
> > > > On Sept 19, again Christians heard another confusing verse. It can quite effectively be taken out of context when one imagines the corporatist American government, like a greedy octopus, slithering around the world taking things by force."And I tell you, make friends for yourselves by means of dishonest wealth so that when it is gone, they may welcome you into the eternal homes."~ Luke 16:9
> > > > Christians agree that Jesus actually said that.
> > > > This upcoming Sunday, the many Christian churches that use the Revised Common Lectionary will hear a reading from the book of Genesis where the patriarch Jacob wrestles with God. During this reading, God changes the unfortunately named Jacob's name to "Israel." Jacob, one of the patriarchs to which Judaism and Christianity trace their faith, literally means "he who grasps the heal." Figuratively, this name has an even worse meaning: "He who deceives." Israel, his new and improved name, means: "he struggles with God."
> > > > To me, there can be a beauty in a faith that lets you struggle with God. At the same time, it's easy to take this out of context. To struggle with God is to be opposed to God, to challenge the Almighty and His ways. This presents a rather unflattering talking point about Israel. The word Israel, the name of the most problematic state in the Middle East, was chosen by leaders of that country as a way to present itself to the world – "struggle with God." For the billions of people out there who believe in a God that's about the worst name you can come up with for a country.
> > > > Let me just restate all that in a nine-second talking point about Judeo-Christian culture:Jacob means "he who deceives"; Israel means "struggles with God"; Jesus commands his followers to be dishonest and to hate life. Are these the professed values of a good people? What more does one need to know distrust Christians and Jews?Do these facts make me not want to go to church? No, they just make me realize how important it is to never trust the media about anything. Nine-second sound-bites are alluring and deceptive. Just like my religious proclivities seem very strange to others when taken out of context, the religious, political, athletic, emotional, and physical proclivities of nearly any person seem strange when taken out of context. For shock value, the hate mongers of American society love taking religion out of context, as long as Christianity's not that religion.Filter the MediaOnalltopics there is an agenda. Base your understanding of situations on your relationship with people. Use the media to try to challenge yourself and to seek out differing perspectives.Never let your own experience be overshadowed by the words you read from some unknown journalist.I've sat down with enough respected journalists to realize that they are not as critically questioning and decent as their readers seem to believe.Slovak-Hungarian Hatred?In Slovakia Hungarians are said to be hated. There's a long history in which Hungarians (Magyars) controlled the land known today as Slovakia. That history spanned a good thousand years and had some very ugly moments, akin to a soft genocide, that sought to snuff out the existence of Slovaks.
> > > > It is said that Slovaks hate Hungarians. I can attest that some do.
> > > > However, when I am invited to visit a Slovak family that has Hungarian neighbors, I recognize that relations between Slovak and Hungarian neighbors tend to be quite hospitable. Just as hospitable as with any other neighbor.
> > > > The media and the whispers of popular culture, especially around election time, are quick to tell ugly stories about how bad those ethnic relations are. This no doubt actually influences some relationships. However, experience in the intimate relationships of a handful of diverse people tells me that the media is likely incorrect in this matter. I choose only to speak from my own experience on this topic, which also has its shortcomings, but is far more honest than pretending myself an expert just because I've read lots of work from some far-off journalists.
> > > > When it comes to neighbors, my Slovak acquaintances tend to be quite welcoming to the Hungarian minority that still live in Slovakia. Forced language is a sign of oppression. The Hungarian authorities used to force Hungarian language on Slovaks and understandably that period in history still impassions many Slovaks today. Freely spoken language, on the other hand, is a way to build a bridge into a friendship. I often hear Slovaks throw around a few Hungarian phrases with their Hungarian neighbors. Such relationships are in the best interest of neighbors.Good relations are not in the best interest of those who 1. want to sell papers, 2. are filled with hate, and/or 3. have no other issues on which to win an election.The nationalist parties of Slovakia and Hungary don't like these amicable relationships among Slovaks and Hungarians. They like to poke at the very real wounds of the past. The more they can get people to foremost remember those wounds, the more they can get their audience to forget that these are living breathing people they are asking them to hate and to mistreat, the more votes, the more media time, the more influence, the more money there is for those nationalist parties. They have a formula and they wield it effectively.
> > > > A political consultant by the name of Mike Rothfeld,linked to here, gives a great speech on political participation that I saw at the Leadership Institute in Arlington, VA. In his speech, Rothfeld makes a request of his audience:Whenever you listen to a speech, whenever you read a newspaper, whenever you are watching TV, or even just talking face-to-face and see someone trying to get you to believe something, you've got to ask yourself 'How does it benefit this person if I believe what he's saying?'Cui bono? In whose interest? Is the old concept that he restates. We all know that people don't often exert great effort just for the heck of it. Receiving communication through the
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