Kucinich is currently drafting legislation that includes a ban on the
purchase, sale, transfer, or possession of handguns by civilians.
then again ...
Kucinich was one of the dissenters in a 390-5 vote with 22 abstentions
for a resolution reaffirming the U.S.'s support for Israel.
On Sep 22, 1:48 pm, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Viktor
>
> The whole left-right paradigm needs to be jettisoned. I see no reason to
> even bring it up in discussion, as it only serves to entrench beliefs and
> file people into pre-conceived bins. For example, I do not consider
> libertarianism as a "far right belief system," where in my mental map I
> place fascism. I would argue that's what most people think as well, and
> when you claim libertarianism is far right, you will get a knee-jerk
> reaction that will categorize you together with fascists.
>
> I think Ron Paul was merely expressing his friendship and admiration for
> Kucinic, who, unlike most other Democrats, occasionally exhibits some
> principles and stands for peace. This seems to me like the media latching
> onto some off-the-cuff remark and trying to make a controversy out of it. I
> wouldn't worry about it too much. Also, I don't think Ron is confused about
> his personal principles at all. Don't get so hung up on labels. No two
> libertarians will agree on everything (well, maybe unless they are both
> committed market anarchists :).
>
> In terms of voter confusion, if someone would reject Ron Paul because of
> this one remark, that person is a lost cause IMHO. You will not be able to
> covert everyone, and there will be those who do not look too deeply into
> things. You can't cater to that crowd. That is exactly the kind of
> pandering I would hope Ron stays away from. Let him speak his mind, because
> that is what got him where he is now. We just have to hope that a large
> enough percentage of people are ready to hear his message.
>
> Let me paraphrase Thoreau: "It has been said that the government that
> governs best is the government that governs least. Well, I say that the
> government that governs best is the government that governs not at all. And
> someday, when people are ready for it, that is the kind of government they
> shall have."
>
> Someday, people will be ready for it. Ron Paul is guiding them in the right
> direction. Whatever happens, that, in the long run, is an accomplishment
> more worthy than any election.
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 10:56 AM, Ed Donegan <eddone...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > This causes me some doubts, NOT that he is considering Kucinich in, but
> > rather is there message confusion, identity confusion, or even ideological
> > confusion in the candidacy that is preventing a clear choice being available
> > to voters.
>
> > I view libertarianism little"l,' Libertarianism big "L," classical
> > liberalism, liberty of the individual protected against the collectivist
> > State, and libertarianism in the sense of John Stuart Mill of On Liberty it
> > the general property rights, civil liberties (upholding the liberties of the
> > people defined in the Bill of Rights against government intrusion,) and more
> > generically, freedom for the individual, including property rights, under a
> > consistent theme of protection that is generally defined as liberalism and
> > libertarianism.
>
> > It is generally perceived as a far right wing belief system, with the left
> > wing preferring the Social Collective represented through a collectivist
> > state who will dictate through a nanny state for the social harmony and good
> > as Government defines it, running roughshod over individual hooligans who
> > oppose the State imposed order causing disorder.
>
> > They are entirely polar belief systems. The Collectivist State rights or
> > the Individual "natural" rights of the citizen.
>
> > Yet while Ron Paul seems to speak quite openly about libertarianism, as
> > classic liberalism, quite openly, the campaign, and imho opinion, the
> > campaign message, and possible the candidacy as a whole is split and torn
> > over what libertarianism, or more technically, liberalism is.
>
> > The confusion in the campaign, at least I perceive, and I suspect many
> > potential volunteers and voters will feel it too, and perhaps impeed
> > support.
>
> > I see warps and twists and potholes around the issue of social
> > conservatism, and even some religious/family values issues.
>
> > Quite frankly, and I may be in the wrong place here, this is an issue of
> > impurity to me, and one that creates even finer orthogonal axis or branches
> > of existing axis on matters important to voters.
>
> > Classic social conservatism, say for instance from the Neo-Cons, has roots
> > in law and order family values reaching such extremes as to invite police
> > states and bible puritanicalism in Government promote value systems that
> > can call into question the separation of Church and State, among our
> > religious liberty protections of the First Amendment and the
> > Non-Establishment Clause, as well as other civil liberty protections such as
> > right to public trial, especially on treason allegations, protections from
> > unreasonable search and seizure Rand Paul has gone to such great lengths to
> > defend re: the Patriot Act problems, etc.,
>
> > In this regard, imho, the social conservatism heavily advocated now in the
> > campaign has inconsistent ideology.
>
> > As best as I can understand it, this is the breakdown.
>
> > Ron Paul is a religiously guided man, not at all a problem in its own
> > right, we all are entitled to our belief system and to be guided by it, but
> > he splits with social conservatives over civil liberties issues such as
> > excess police power of the State, and the State in rather Socialistic
> > Collectivist ways violating the Peoples' property rights through State
> > seizure and interventionism, and regulation of property and commerce.
>
> > This violation of property rights is another huge no no as far as classic
> > liberalism goes.
>
> > I know that
>
> > 1. When the left wing demanded their free speech rights and other civil
> > liberties/political rights of the First Amendment against Government
> > repression, the left got branded "liberals" forever creating confusion about
> > what liberty is and which party supports it. This is not Ron Paul's fault.
> > 2. There seems to me to be a great deal of confusion, and sometimes
> > even debate, about whether Ron Paul is a Libertarian, libertarian, a classic
> > social conservative, a classic liberal, or something else or something
> > unique to him.
>
> > I think in seeing his candidacy I see where he fits and why, but it seems
> > to me there could be some room for improvement in the vocabulary in defining
> > his social conservatism as different from other police state friendly law
> > and order at any cost type social conservative.
>
> > Part of the problem may lie with me as the listener, since I tend to be
> > more of a social liberal. I also agree with Ron Paul that being very far to
> > the right often means being in a circle rather than an axis, and fining out
> > you meetup with the left on a lot of issues, the center being in the center
> > instead of out at the perimeter of the circle.
>
> > So while I do agree conceptually with he is stating, I also find some
> > in-clarity about what the specific message of philosophy is defined as, in
> > some kind of nutshell that cab be gotten across to voters.
>
> > Again, while this may be my own issue of confusion about the message or
> > demographic, and I may not be a Ron Paul true purist, I wanted to let you
> > know about my impressions because I think it is possible other reachable
> > potential voters may be experiencing some ill-definition problems in the
> > message too.
>
> > I do hope I have not offended anyone with this.
>
> > --- On *Wed, 9/21/11, bruce <majors.br...@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
> > From: bruce <majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: [ronpaul-30] Fwd: [NEWS] Ron Paul says he'd consider putting
> > Dennis Kucinich in his Cabinet
> > To: ronpaul...@meetup.com
> > Date: Wednesday, September 21, 2011, 7:42 PM
>
> > **
>
> > **
> > *Ron Paul says he'd consider putting Dennis Kucinich in his Cabinet*
> > **
> > *< another "over the top comment" that makes me scared as hell of the
> > goofy one >*
> > **
> > *
> >http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/182939-ron-paul-says...
> > *
>
> > Click here: Ron Paul says he'd consider putting Dennis Kucinich in his
> > Cabinet - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room<http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/182939-ron-paul-says...>
> > **
>
> > Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) says he would consider putting the liberal
> > congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio) in his Cabinet if he were to win the
> > presidency in 2012.
>
> > Paul said his libertarian political philosophy helps him connect with some
> > on the far left ? including Kucinich, who shares Paul?s general anti-war
> > stance.
>
> > Paul joked that if he brought the Ohio congressman aboard in his
> > administration, he might have to create a "Department of Peace."
>
> > "You've got to give credit to people who think," he said.
>
> > "Being pragmatic is about forming coalitions," Paul said at a breakfast
> > sponsored by *The Christian Science Monitor*. "I probably work with
> > coalitions better than the other candidates. I don't think I've said
> > anything negative here about the president."
>
> > Paul?s bid for the GOP nomination has yet to catch fire, though he enjoys
> > perhaps the most passionate following in all of politics. He has had
> > difficulty elevating himself to the top tier of candidates and complained
> > that the media is not taking his campaign seriously.
>
> > But the congressman said he?s playing the long game, and values bringing
> > political change over winning the presidency.
>
> > "Politics doesn't drive me as much as economic policy," Paul said. "We're
> > in a big mess, personal liberty is under attack."
>
> > Paul said his presidential campaign is more about an "educational effort"
> > of libertarian philosophies than a reflection of his personal ambition.
> > ------------------------------
>
> > *More from The Hill:*
> > *? Video: Paul says country, GOP have shifted towards his views*<http://thehill.com/video/campaign/182967-ron-paul-country-gop-have-sh...>
> > *? Video: Jon Stewart 'made our case' for lack of media attention*<http://thehill.com/video/campaign/182971-ron-paul-jon-stewart-made-ou...>
> > *? Ron Paul: Obama cuts to veterans' health 'unjust and immoral'*<http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/politics-elections/182607-paul-b...>
> > *? Ron Paul money bomb raises $1 million*<http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/164879-paul-raises-o...>
> > *? Opinion: Ron Paul wins big in Calif., media ignores him*<http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/182281-ro...>
> > *? Vince Vaughn introduces Paul at libertarian event*<http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/gop-presidential-primary/182153-v...>
> > *? Perry ad slams Obama as 'president zero'*<http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/182877-new-per...>
> > *? New poll finds Palin in striking distance of Obama*<http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/182963-as-palin-flir...>
> > ------------------------------
>
> > "There are a lot of people who just don't want to hear this," Paul said.
> > "Very few people understand this, they don't have an understanding of how
> > free markets work."
>
> > The congressman said the fact that other Republican candidates are talking
> > about the Federal Reserve or rolling back entitlement programs like Social
> > Security and Medicare are victories for his campaign. Paul also says his
> > campaign ? coupled with a financial crisis that has brought into question
> > the stability of the American economic system ? is changing the prevailing
> > attitudes of voters.
>
> > "It requires a lot more education and a lot more inroads," Paul said. "But
> > absolutely, I think the whole country has come this way."
>
> > But Paul continues to struggle in the polls, hovering around 9 to 10
> > percent of likely Republican primary voters. While his showing is
> > consistently better than some candidates who have garnered more attention,
> > he is unsure of how he will propel himself to the top of the field.
>
> > "The supporters believe it's possible, I don't know," Paul said. "There's
> > no reason to rule out the fact this can explode. Something has to give
> > here."
>
> > Paul attributed some of the problem to the media, arguing that significant
> > campaign milestones and rallies were underreported. And he acknowledged that
> > as a candidate, he is responsible for delivering his message in a way that
> > voters can appreciate.
>
> > "It partially is my fault, and I think that's what I work on most, refining
> > my message," Paul said.
>
> > But Paul rejected the idea that he should adopt a more pragmatic or
> > conciliatory strategy that would enable him to either grow his base among
> > those skeptical of some of his views ? particularly in terms of
> > non-interventionist foreign policy ? or achieve smaller pieces of his
> > domestic policy goals legislatively.
>
> > "If you give up your principles, you're not being very pragmatic," Paul
> > said.
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > **
>
> > *.*
>
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