Yes, Kieth.
You are a liar, a hater, a "smearer", and a misguided homophobic
officious bigot with a dirty mind.
Yes, you are.
I don't laugh at you, because I find you to be a to be a pathetic
simplistic misguided reich wingnut, a liar, a hater, and yes, a
"smearer".
On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am a liar, hater and a "smearer" because I stand up and hold you
> accountable for the horse hockey you post to this group? That somehow,
> because you post some ignorant nonsense on this forum, this makes it
> truthful?
>
> I laugh out loud at you!!
>
> You are the epitome of what is ailing America Tom! You are a misinformed,
> misguided malcontent who is most likely a drain on our Nation's economic
> resources not to mention your Anti-American viewpoints. You don't have a
> clue what is going on around you. You are too ignorant to even search and
> learn of the truth!
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1- Lie. SPLC is NOT a hate group.
>>
>> and 2- Lie. The ten lies are indeed lies.
>>
>> Here is Proof positive that Kieth is a liar, hater, and purveyor of
>> false smear.
>> Proof, as he reqested himself.
>>
>> On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Two points.
>> >
>> > First, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group. A hate group,
>> that
>> > labels other Americans with despicable tags and ostentatious
>> > misrepresentations.
>> >
>> > Second, most if not all of the purpoted ten lies are prevaricate and
>> taken
>> > out of context. Some of the purported "lies" are in fact quite
>> accurate.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate
>> >> Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective
>> >> by Kathy on 29. Nov, 2010 in MUST READS, Please Be Nicer, Uncategorized
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As a follower of Jesus who takes very seriously the commands to love,
>> >> be merciful and "spend" myself on justice, I've struggled for a week
>> >> with this post about the designation of the Family Research Council
>> >> (FRC) as a Hate Group. I am a swirl of anger and shame and relief. I
>> >> have waited over a week to write and post this so that I could check
>> >> myself and make sure it's the Jesus-kind of anger motivating me. By
>> >> speaking out, I will be going directly against what appears to be
>> >> good, sound and sacred. So be it. Deceit and hatred wrapped in a
>> >> lovely robe and carrying a Holy Text is a horrible, blasphemous
>> >> offense.
>> >>
>> >> In December 2010, the Family Research Council (FRC) was placed on
>> >> Southern Poverty Law Center's (SPLC) list of Hate Groups. In amongst
>> >> 932 designated active hate groups in the United States which include:
>> >> neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, White Supremacists, White Nationalists, Black
>> >> Separatists, Racist Skinheads, Holocaust Deniers, Neo-Confederates,
>> >> Anti-Immigrationists and Anti-Gay groups, there is listed the Family
>> >> Research Council.
>> >>
>> >> Eighteen of SPLC's Hate Groups are anti-gay. For absolute clarity,
>> >> deeming homosexuality as "unbiblical" will not earn an organization a
>> >> spot on the Hate Groups list. But, continuous dissemination of known
>> >> falsehoods and the repeated, groundless demonizing of gay, lesbian,
>> >> bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people will score a group an uncoveted
>> >> position on the list.
>> >>
>> >> I listened to Tony Perkins, President of FRC, on Fox and Friends as he
>> >> responded to the dishonor announced last week on being place on the
>> >> SPLC's Hate Groups list. I talked to my computer screen and boiled at
>> >> his smiling, what-me? attitude. No, Mr. Perkins, FRC is not on the
>> >> list because you are a conservative group. Your actions have placed
>> >> you there. No, Mr. Perkins, the left is not trying to shut down the
>> >> debate or take away your freedom of religion. GLBT people are
>> >> fighting for what the mascot-version-God aside you says they
>> >> deserve—equality. Religious straight conservatives (and I am one)
>> >> will still be able to get married, have children, serve in the
>> >> military and attend houses of worship of their choice. No one wants
>> >> to strip us of any of those rights; they just want the same rights,
>> >> not special rights, not more rights, not gay rights—the same rights.
>> >> Mr. Perkins, you drag God into your battle as an accomplice and, to
>> >> me, that is even more despicable than your messages. You use God as
>> >> your validation, saying you are fighting to protect His
>> >> Judeo-Christian values. You and FRC deserve to be called dangerous
>> >> and hateful; you and FRC have earned it.
>> >>
>> >> FRC, regrettably, is not the only anti-gay group on the SPLC Hate
>> >> List. They are joined, most notably, by: Abiding Truth, run by Scott
>> >> Lively (outlined in a post "On Scott Lively and the "Kill the Gays
>> >> Bill" (in) Fame" that I wrote after a long personal series of
>> >> exchanges with him), American Family Association (AFA), Concerned
>> >> Women for America (CWA) and National Organization for Marriage (NOM).
>> >> All are dispensers of false accusations, myths and lies about GLBT
>> >> people. I have spent over five years as an active advocate/friend of
>> >> the GLBT community, especially the gay/trans Christians and, over
>> >> twenty five years as a devout follower of Jesus. I have feet in both
>> >> the conservative Christian world and the GLBT world. I am in a unique
>> >> position to assess the controversy. The lies about gay people really
>> >> hurt in a deep spot in me. Lies that substantiate the "right" to
>> >> discriminate.
>> >>
>> >> Here are the top ten myths and lies presented by FRC, CWA, AFA and
>> >> NOM, (I won't even touch Scott Lively's ramblings here. Read the
>> >> blogpost . He is widely agreed to be in the same special grouping with
>> >> the Westboro Baptist Church). I follow each lie with a short
>> >> commentary and link to where I have written about that topic in the
>> >> past.
>> >>
>> >> 1. People make a choice to be gay. If you know any/many GLBT people
>> >> and you have listened to them, you would not entertain this statement
>> >> as true. This is a pivotal statement used by anti-gay groups all
>> >> the time. It is simple and it is powerful. Here is why. If being
>> >> GLBT is a choice, then it is a conduct. Conduct is not protected by
>> >> law. But, a class of people, a status of people, is protected by law.
>> >> If these conservative groups can get us to believe that being GLBT is
>> >> a choice, then they can hope to withhold civil rights from gay/trans
>> >> people. Again, conduct is not protected but classes of people are
>> >> protected.
>> >>
>> >> This house of cards and lies are starting to tumble down however. In
>> >> the Supreme Court, a ruling was released on June 28, 2010 for
>> >> Christian Legal Society(CLS) at University of California, Hastings
>> >> School of Law v Martinez. CLS contented that they were discriminating
>> >> against a behavior, the homosexuality of a perspective member, when
>> >> they denied admission to the group. We are all clear that state money
>> >> and property cannot be used to discriminate against a class of people,
>> >> but CLS said this was about behavior. In siding with Martinez, the
>> >> Supreme Court decision called GLBT people a "class"; this is huge,
>> >> huge. The Supreme Court has now designated GLBT people as a class, not
>> >> a behavior, not a conduct. A group of people.
>> >>
>> >> Forget all the myths and bigotry some groups will use to discriminate
>> >> against GLBT people, the Supreme Court (and every recognized American
>> >> medical, counseling and psychiatric group) understands that
>> >> homosexuality/transgenderness is not a choice. They are a class or
>> >> status of people. With that designation, equality will come.
>> >>
>> >> I find it exceedingly sad that the State is leading the charge for
>> >> social justice when God told His people over 2,700 years ago in the
>> >> book of Isaiah to "spend" themselves on justice issues. (Isaiah 58:
>> >> 6-12) The courts are now leading the way to end this inequality. It
>> >> should have been Christians churches. We have been here before on the
>> >> issues of equality for women and Black Americans. God help us; Your
>> >> people betrayed a mandate and used Your name to validate
>> >> discrimination.
>> >>
>> >> 2. People become homosexual because they were sexually abused as
>> >> children or had distant father/over bearing mother or some variation
>> >> on bad parenting. GLBT children are no more abused or subject to poor
>> >> role models than heterosexual children. Fifteen to twenty five percent
>> >> of all girls were sexually abused and seven to fifteen percent of all
>> >> boys. There is no scientific evidence to link abuse and orientation.
>> >> None. This myth has burdened parents of GLBT children with a guilt and
>> >> shame that they somehow caused their children's orientation. Shame
>> >> and blame. And, a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy has been
>> >> rejected by all the established and reputable American medical,
>> >> psychological, psychiatric and professional counseling organizations.
>> >> The overwhelming majority of people that have "changed" have: chosen
>> >> to be celibate, were bisexual and not exclusively homosexual, or opt
>> >> to live a "straight" life to adhere to strong religious and social
>> >> pressures. ( Read my post about Sexual Orientation . ) Even the leader
>> >> of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus, said
>> >> just this week that he still is attracted to men. This is my personal
>> >> belief, I would say, that if it were not for his paycheck, status and
>> >> books, he would be more truthful. I have two close friends who were
>> >> leaders/founders of Exodus and they are transparent in telling the
>> >> stories of the lies and lack of integrity in the Exodus- type message.
>> >>
>> >> I have personally interviewed both of them (Michael Bussee and Darlene
>> >> Bogle ) and this reparative sex industry is a sham and a money
>> >> machine. It does not work. I do not know one, not one person who has
>> >> changed sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Not one.
>> >> Have there been cases where some sexual abuse caused a skewed sexual
>> >> view that was corrected? Sure. I would place that in the less than 1%
>> >> realm. Go to Beyond Ex-Gay and Box Turtle Bulletin for reparative
>> >> therapy stories. The leaders of ex-gay ministries will never say you
>> >> can change orientation; they appear to say that, but listen. They
>> >> even know it is a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Efforts to change someone's sexual orientation from homosexual
>> >> to heterosexual are not harmful nor unethical. Oh really? Being GLBT
>> >> is a status, not a behavior or "lifestyle" (this word drives me
>> >> batty!). Constant pressure to change the core of a person is a
>> >> violation of humanity and it is an abuse. Telling someone who is
>> >> same-sex attracted that they must change who they are to be acceptable
>> >> to family, society, God is harmful and unethical.
>> >>
>> >> Ask an alcoholic or drug addict to get clean and you will see benefit.
>> >> Ask an adulterer to stop cheating and you see benefit. Go on and on
>> >> down the list of "bad behaviors" and encourage folks to eliminate them
>> >> and you will see life and good. Then, apply this "you must change your
>> >> orientation" attitude and dictate to a GLBT person, and you will see
>> >> loneliness, depression, isolation and shame. I am sure people are
>> >> well intentioned in wanting others to change and live "the good life"
>> >> of heterosexuality. I could not change my orientation, yet, we ask
>> >> others to change theirs. For our good. For their destruction.
>> >>
>> >> 5. Homosexuals experience a higher level of psychological disorders
>> >> than do heterosexuals. Really? Reject anyone repeatedly and from all
>> >> directions and from all societal institutions and you set them up for
>> >> personal destruction. We have done an excellent job of sending out a
>> >> message of less-thanism from every corner of society to the GLBT
>> >> community–from churches, government, military and schools. Want to
>> >> decrease the shame, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts and
>> >> loneliness imposed on GLBT people? Stop the rejection. Incredibly
>> >> simplistic. Be loving, be accepting, be a safe place. Love,
>> >> acceptance and security. That is all we each ask for. Try extending
>> >> it and watch the "psychological disorders" melt away.
>> >>
>> >> 6. Children raised by homosexuals are not as healthy as children
>> >> raised by heterosexuals and, they suffer harm. First, all studies
>> >> show children do better with two parents, two, not a male and female,
>> >> two parents. Want to protect children? Start by not getting divorced
>> >> and letting them have two, engaged, in-the-same-house parents. Next,
>> >> the majority of the children that I personally know in gay male couple
>> >> families are adopted children. Disposed-of children that exit the
>> >> foster/state systems into these loving homes. In lesbian couple
>> >> families, many of the children are their own children and they should
>> >> be with their Mom. Let Mom have a legal partner for the security of
>> >> those children. Two parents. No, none, zero studies exist to state
>> >> that children raised in same-sex couple families are harmed or suffer
>> >> any more than we heterosexual parents all-stars effect them.
>> >>
>> >> The courts asked the plaintiffs for proof of this accusation of
>> >> damage to children in same-sex parenting homes in the Prop 8 case in
>> >> California. This was the big opportunity to lay it out for all to see
>> >> and guess what? No evidence was presented. None. You can lie all you
>> >> want on TV and in sound bites, but in court, you must bring proof. No
>> >> proof was offered. Want to make the home life of children healthier?
>> >> Let them have two parents. Let GLBT couples marry and create
>> >> families and security for their children.
>> >>
>> >> I have specifically and intentionally spent time with my GLBT friends
>> >> and their children to observe. As a mother of two grown children
>> >> (both straight), I am impressed with what I have seen. GLBT people do
>> >> not want to destroy family, they want to create it, with their kids
>> >> and with the tossed away kids.
>> >>
>> >> 7. Homosexuals are more likely to molest children than
>> >> heterosexuals. This lie can make a person crazy because it is such an
>> >> offensive lie. This repeated nonsense has damaged relationships of
>> >> GLBT people within their families and extended families. "Don't let
>> >> Aunt Lesbian near the kids and surely not Uncle Gay. They will touch
>> >> our kids inappropriately and use them sexually." Molestation of
>> >> children is NOT an issue of orientation. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> >> Molestation of children is about being attracted to a child's age, not
>> >> gender of the child or the abuser. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> >>
>> >> In a 2008 study of medical records in a Denver emergency room in cases
>> >> of molestation, 1% had been attributed to GLBT people. The
>> >> overwhelming majority of molestation is inflicted by heterosexual
>> >> relatives and friends. This lie has to stop. FRC and the others quote
>> >> and requote 87% of all cases of pedophilia involve a gay person.
>> >> WHERE do they get this stuff? The one report they keep quoting with
>> >> assurance has been thrown out as sloppy and false work by any expert
>> >> of repute. Yet, the rhetoric they call the truth is robbing GLBT
>> >> people of family, and family of their gay relatives. Destruction of
>> >> family? Yes. For a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 8. Homosexuals are not seriously disadvantaged by discrimination.
>> >> GLBT couples are denied 1,138 rights that a married heterosexual
>> >> couple enjoys under the law. They are discriminated against in the
>> >> military, in families, in churches and in society. That appears to be
>> >> pretty serious disadvantage to me. Imagine, 1,138 rights denied a
>> >> GLBT couple that wants to commit to love and marriage and cannot.
>> >> Count to 1,138 and ask yourself: is this not discrimination?
>> >>
>> >> 9. Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed
>> >> relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a partner, even
>> >> if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for a
>> >> lifetime, than are heterosexuals. Chicken or egg? Tell people they are
>> >> less-than and see what you get. Marriage is an institution in which
>> >> couples establish state protected, church ordained, committed
>> >> relationships. And it is denied to GLBT people. Take away marriage
>> >> from heterosexual couples and imagine the results. Oh, we have that,
>> >> heterosexual people living together. They don't seem to have the
>> >> success rate of marriage. Serial heterosexual monogamy.
>> >>
>> >> Marriage brings protection, a stronger bond of commitment and the
>> >> support of family and a community. GLBT people do not enjoy the
>> >> security of legal marriage in all 50 states. They do not grow up
>> >> thinking "who will I marry?". Why bother, it is not a reality (yet).
>> >> So, even when we do extend the right to marry to GLBT people, there
>> >> will be a season of transition. And, in time, there will be the
>> >> similar percentages of success/failure in same-sex marriages as in
>> >> heterosexual marriages.
>> >>
>> >> 10. GLBT people cannot be Christians. I devote an entire blogsite
>> >> Canyonwalker Connections to this issue. The best starting place is the
>> >> VERSES tab. If you believe this myth, you are ignoring a movement of
>> >> God that is exploding around the world. GLBT Christians are growing in
>> >> number, in spiritual maturity, in gifting and it is happening fast.
>> >> The best way to see proof is to visit an affirming congregation. Go
>> >> to www.Welcomingchurches.org <http://www.welcomingchurches.org/> <
>> http://www.welcomingchurches.org/>, call an
>> >> affirming pastor in your area
>> >> from the list and go see what God is doing in His GLBT children. Of
>> >> course they can be Christians.
>> >>
>> >> Lies are evil. Lies breed fear. Myths about people or groups become
>> >> the basis for forming ideology about others. We have done it to
>> >> Native Americans, immigrants over our own history, the Irish, the
>> >> Germans, the Italians, the Jews, the Africans, the Mexicans, the
>> >> Muslims, the Russians, the "others". On and on. If we repeat the myth
>> >> enough, maybe it will gain muddy traction and stick. This is what FRC
>> >> and other Hate Groups do so well. They demonize the gay community. I
>> >> think they actually believe they are good and fighting the good fight
>> >> and hanging on to all that is sacred and holy. But, they are lying.
>> >> That is discrimination. And, while they are doing it, they are causing
>> >> destruction, that is hate. Maybe the public backlash of being
>> >> designated a Hate Group will shame them to reassess their message.
>> >>
>> >> Now, the final word as a Christian. I think there is something worse
>> >> than making the SPLC's Hate Groups List. My first concern would be
>> >> "am I pleasing God?". We all, all, have an image of God in us. We are
>> >> called to love, respect and serve others. We are called to be shining
>> >> lights in which others can see some piece of Jesus. Imagine a
>> >> kicked-out-of-church gay man, a shamed-by-her-family lesbian, a
>> >> suicidal Mormon teen who knows that honesty means losing family and
>> >> church, two men that want desperately to get married and build a
>> >> family, a young bisexual girl who cuts herself in the shame and pain
>> >> of her sexuality and religious oppression. God loves every one of
>> >> these people, the same way He loves me. God, in His Word, and Jesus,
>> >> in His life, told me to treat everyone with equality and love. If the
>> >> church cannot police our own, perhaps God is using secular
>> >> organizations to slap His children upside the head? Would not be the
>> >> first time. I will stand with, beside and in front of my GLBT fellow
>> >> humans to ensure that they gain equality with me.
>> >>
>> >> Family Research Council, you should be more concerned about where you
>> >> are on God's list of naughty or nice, sheep or goats. And Southern
>> >> Poverty Law Center, thank you, really . . . thank you.
>> >>
>> >> More:
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/11/ten-myths-about-the-glbt-community-a-christian-perspective/
>> >> --
>> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> Have a great day,
>> >> Tommy
>> >>
>> >> --
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>> >>
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>> >
>> > --
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>> >
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>
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>>
>
> --
> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
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--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy
--
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