I am a liar, hater and a "smearer" because I stand up and hold you accountable for the horse hockey you post to this group? That somehow, because you post some ignorant nonsense on this forum, this makes it truthful?
I laugh out loud at you!!
You are the epitome of what is ailing America Tom! You are a misinformed, misguided malcontent who is most likely a drain on our Nation's economic resources not to mention your Anti-American viewpoints. You don't have a clue what is going on around you. You are too ignorant to even search and learn of the truth!
On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
1- Lie. SPLC is NOT a hate group.
and 2- Lie. The ten lies are indeed lies.
Here is Proof positive that Kieth is a liar, hater, and purveyor of
false smear.
Proof, as he reqested himself.
>> to www.Welcomingchurches.org <http://www.welcomingchurches.org/>, call an
On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Two points.
>
> First, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group. A hate group, that
> labels other Americans with despicable tags and ostentatious
> misrepresentations.
>
> Second, most if not all of the purpoted ten lies are prevaricate and taken
> out of context. Some of the purported "lies" are in fact quite accurate.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate
>> Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective
>> by Kathy on 29. Nov, 2010 in MUST READS, Please Be Nicer, Uncategorized
>>
>>
>> As a follower of Jesus who takes very seriously the commands to love,
>> be merciful and "spend" myself on justice, I've struggled for a week
>> with this post about the designation of the Family Research Council
>> (FRC) as a Hate Group. I am a swirl of anger and shame and relief. I
>> have waited over a week to write and post this so that I could check
>> myself and make sure it's the Jesus-kind of anger motivating me. By
>> speaking out, I will be going directly against what appears to be
>> good, sound and sacred. So be it. Deceit and hatred wrapped in a
>> lovely robe and carrying a Holy Text is a horrible, blasphemous
>> offense.
>>
>> In December 2010, the Family Research Council (FRC) was placed on
>> Southern Poverty Law Center's (SPLC) list of Hate Groups. In amongst
>> 932 designated active hate groups in the United States which include:
>> neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, White Supremacists, White Nationalists, Black
>> Separatists, Racist Skinheads, Holocaust Deniers, Neo-Confederates,
>> Anti-Immigrationists and Anti-Gay groups, there is listed the Family
>> Research Council.
>>
>> Eighteen of SPLC's Hate Groups are anti-gay. For absolute clarity,
>> deeming homosexuality as "unbiblical" will not earn an organization a
>> spot on the Hate Groups list. But, continuous dissemination of known
>> falsehoods and the repeated, groundless demonizing of gay, lesbian,
>> bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people will score a group an uncoveted
>> position on the list.
>>
>> I listened to Tony Perkins, President of FRC, on Fox and Friends as he
>> responded to the dishonor announced last week on being place on the
>> SPLC's Hate Groups list. I talked to my computer screen and boiled at
>> his smiling, what-me? attitude. No, Mr. Perkins, FRC is not on the
>> list because you are a conservative group. Your actions have placed
>> you there. No, Mr. Perkins, the left is not trying to shut down the
>> debate or take away your freedom of religion. GLBT people are
>> fighting for what the mascot-version-God aside you says they
>> deserve—equality. Religious straight conservatives (and I am one)
>> will still be able to get married, have children, serve in the
>> military and attend houses of worship of their choice. No one wants
>> to strip us of any of those rights; they just want the same rights,
>> not special rights, not more rights, not gay rights—the same rights.
>> Mr. Perkins, you drag God into your battle as an accomplice and, to
>> me, that is even more despicable than your messages. You use God as
>> your validation, saying you are fighting to protect His
>> Judeo-Christian values. You and FRC deserve to be called dangerous
>> and hateful; you and FRC have earned it.
>>
>> FRC, regrettably, is not the only anti-gay group on the SPLC Hate
>> List. They are joined, most notably, by: Abiding Truth, run by Scott
>> Lively (outlined in a post "On Scott Lively and the "Kill the Gays
>> Bill" (in) Fame" that I wrote after a long personal series of
>> exchanges with him), American Family Association (AFA), Concerned
>> Women for America (CWA) and National Organization for Marriage (NOM).
>> All are dispensers of false accusations, myths and lies about GLBT
>> people. I have spent over five years as an active advocate/friend of
>> the GLBT community, especially the gay/trans Christians and, over
>> twenty five years as a devout follower of Jesus. I have feet in both
>> the conservative Christian world and the GLBT world. I am in a unique
>> position to assess the controversy. The lies about gay people really
>> hurt in a deep spot in me. Lies that substantiate the "right" to
>> discriminate.
>>
>> Here are the top ten myths and lies presented by FRC, CWA, AFA and
>> NOM, (I won't even touch Scott Lively's ramblings here. Read the
>> blogpost . He is widely agreed to be in the same special grouping with
>> the Westboro Baptist Church). I follow each lie with a short
>> commentary and link to where I have written about that topic in the
>> past.
>>
>> 1. People make a choice to be gay. If you know any/many GLBT people
>> and you have listened to them, you would not entertain this statement
>> as true. This is a pivotal statement used by anti-gay groups all
>> the time. It is simple and it is powerful. Here is why. If being
>> GLBT is a choice, then it is a conduct. Conduct is not protected by
>> law. But, a class of people, a status of people, is protected by law.
>> If these conservative groups can get us to believe that being GLBT is
>> a choice, then they can hope to withhold civil rights from gay/trans
>> people. Again, conduct is not protected but classes of people are
>> protected.
>>
>> This house of cards and lies are starting to tumble down however. In
>> the Supreme Court, a ruling was released on June 28, 2010 for
>> Christian Legal Society(CLS) at University of California, Hastings
>> School of Law v Martinez. CLS contented that they were discriminating
>> against a behavior, the homosexuality of a perspective member, when
>> they denied admission to the group. We are all clear that state money
>> and property cannot be used to discriminate against a class of people,
>> but CLS said this was about behavior. In siding with Martinez, the
>> Supreme Court decision called GLBT people a "class"; this is huge,
>> huge. The Supreme Court has now designated GLBT people as a class, not
>> a behavior, not a conduct. A group of people.
>>
>> Forget all the myths and bigotry some groups will use to discriminate
>> against GLBT people, the Supreme Court (and every recognized American
>> medical, counseling and psychiatric group) understands that
>> homosexuality/transgenderness is not a choice. They are a class or
>> status of people. With that designation, equality will come.
>>
>> I find it exceedingly sad that the State is leading the charge for
>> social justice when God told His people over 2,700 years ago in the
>> book of Isaiah to "spend" themselves on justice issues. (Isaiah 58:
>> 6-12) The courts are now leading the way to end this inequality. It
>> should have been Christians churches. We have been here before on the
>> issues of equality for women and Black Americans. God help us; Your
>> people betrayed a mandate and used Your name to validate
>> discrimination.
>>
>> 2. People become homosexual because they were sexually abused as
>> children or had distant father/over bearing mother or some variation
>> on bad parenting. GLBT children are no more abused or subject to poor
>> role models than heterosexual children. Fifteen to twenty five percent
>> of all girls were sexually abused and seven to fifteen percent of all
>> boys. There is no scientific evidence to link abuse and orientation.
>> None. This myth has burdened parents of GLBT children with a guilt and
>> shame that they somehow caused their children's orientation. Shame
>> and blame. And, a lie.
>>
>> 3. Sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy has been
>> rejected by all the established and reputable American medical,
>> psychological, psychiatric and professional counseling organizations.
>> The overwhelming majority of people that have "changed" have: chosen
>> to be celibate, were bisexual and not exclusively homosexual, or opt
>> to live a "straight" life to adhere to strong religious and social
>> pressures. ( Read my post about Sexual Orientation . ) Even the leader
>> of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus, said
>> just this week that he still is attracted to men. This is my personal
>> belief, I would say, that if it were not for his paycheck, status and
>> books, he would be more truthful. I have two close friends who were
>> leaders/founders of Exodus and they are transparent in telling the
>> stories of the lies and lack of integrity in the Exodus- type message.
>>
>> I have personally interviewed both of them (Michael Bussee and Darlene
>> Bogle ) and this reparative sex industry is a sham and a money
>> machine. It does not work. I do not know one, not one person who has
>> changed sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Not one.
>> Have there been cases where some sexual abuse caused a skewed sexual
>> view that was corrected? Sure. I would place that in the less than 1%
>> realm. Go to Beyond Ex-Gay and Box Turtle Bulletin for reparative
>> therapy stories. The leaders of ex-gay ministries will never say you
>> can change orientation; they appear to say that, but listen. They
>> even know it is a lie.
>>
>> 4. Efforts to change someone's sexual orientation from homosexual
>> to heterosexual are not harmful nor unethical. Oh really? Being GLBT
>> is a status, not a behavior or "lifestyle" (this word drives me
>> batty!). Constant pressure to change the core of a person is a
>> violation of humanity and it is an abuse. Telling someone who is
>> same-sex attracted that they must change who they are to be acceptable
>> to family, society, God is harmful and unethical.
>>
>> Ask an alcoholic or drug addict to get clean and you will see benefit.
>> Ask an adulterer to stop cheating and you see benefit. Go on and on
>> down the list of "bad behaviors" and encourage folks to eliminate them
>> and you will see life and good. Then, apply this "you must change your
>> orientation" attitude and dictate to a GLBT person, and you will see
>> loneliness, depression, isolation and shame. I am sure people are
>> well intentioned in wanting others to change and live "the good life"
>> of heterosexuality. I could not change my orientation, yet, we ask
>> others to change theirs. For our good. For their destruction.
>>
>> 5. Homosexuals experience a higher level of psychological disorders
>> than do heterosexuals. Really? Reject anyone repeatedly and from all
>> directions and from all societal institutions and you set them up for
>> personal destruction. We have done an excellent job of sending out a
>> message of less-thanism from every corner of society to the GLBT
>> community–from churches, government, military and schools. Want to
>> decrease the shame, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts and
>> loneliness imposed on GLBT people? Stop the rejection. Incredibly
>> simplistic. Be loving, be accepting, be a safe place. Love,
>> acceptance and security. That is all we each ask for. Try extending
>> it and watch the "psychological disorders" melt away.
>>
>> 6. Children raised by homosexuals are not as healthy as children
>> raised by heterosexuals and, they suffer harm. First, all studies
>> show children do better with two parents, two, not a male and female,
>> two parents. Want to protect children? Start by not getting divorced
>> and letting them have two, engaged, in-the-same-house parents. Next,
>> the majority of the children that I personally know in gay male couple
>> families are adopted children. Disposed-of children that exit the
>> foster/state systems into these loving homes. In lesbian couple
>> families, many of the children are their own children and they should
>> be with their Mom. Let Mom have a legal partner for the security of
>> those children. Two parents. No, none, zero studies exist to state
>> that children raised in same-sex couple families are harmed or suffer
>> any more than we heterosexual parents all-stars effect them.
>>
>> The courts asked the plaintiffs for proof of this accusation of
>> damage to children in same-sex parenting homes in the Prop 8 case in
>> California. This was the big opportunity to lay it out for all to see
>> and guess what? No evidence was presented. None. You can lie all you
>> want on TV and in sound bites, but in court, you must bring proof. No
>> proof was offered. Want to make the home life of children healthier?
>> Let them have two parents. Let GLBT couples marry and create
>> families and security for their children.
>>
>> I have specifically and intentionally spent time with my GLBT friends
>> and their children to observe. As a mother of two grown children
>> (both straight), I am impressed with what I have seen. GLBT people do
>> not want to destroy family, they want to create it, with their kids
>> and with the tossed away kids.
>>
>> 7. Homosexuals are more likely to molest children than
>> heterosexuals. This lie can make a person crazy because it is such an
>> offensive lie. This repeated nonsense has damaged relationships of
>> GLBT people within their families and extended families. "Don't let
>> Aunt Lesbian near the kids and surely not Uncle Gay. They will touch
>> our kids inappropriately and use them sexually." Molestation of
>> children is NOT an issue of orientation. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> Molestation of children is about being attracted to a child's age, not
>> gender of the child or the abuser. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>>
>> In a 2008 study of medical records in a Denver emergency room in cases
>> of molestation, 1% had been attributed to GLBT people. The
>> overwhelming majority of molestation is inflicted by heterosexual
>> relatives and friends. This lie has to stop. FRC and the others quote
>> and requote 87% of all cases of pedophilia involve a gay person.
>> WHERE do they get this stuff? The one report they keep quoting with
>> assurance has been thrown out as sloppy and false work by any expert
>> of repute. Yet, the rhetoric they call the truth is robbing GLBT
>> people of family, and family of their gay relatives. Destruction of
>> family? Yes. For a lie.
>>
>> 8. Homosexuals are not seriously disadvantaged by discrimination.
>> GLBT couples are denied 1,138 rights that a married heterosexual
>> couple enjoys under the law. They are discriminated against in the
>> military, in families, in churches and in society. That appears to be
>> pretty serious disadvantage to me. Imagine, 1,138 rights denied a
>> GLBT couple that wants to commit to love and marriage and cannot.
>> Count to 1,138 and ask yourself: is this not discrimination?
>>
>> 9. Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed
>> relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a partner, even
>> if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for a
>> lifetime, than are heterosexuals. Chicken or egg? Tell people they are
>> less-than and see what you get. Marriage is an institution in which
>> couples establish state protected, church ordained, committed
>> relationships. And it is denied to GLBT people. Take away marriage
>> from heterosexual couples and imagine the results. Oh, we have that,
>> heterosexual people living together. They don't seem to have the
>> success rate of marriage. Serial heterosexual monogamy.
>>
>> Marriage brings protection, a stronger bond of commitment and the
>> support of family and a community. GLBT people do not enjoy the
>> security of legal marriage in all 50 states. They do not grow up
>> thinking "who will I marry?". Why bother, it is not a reality (yet).
>> So, even when we do extend the right to marry to GLBT people, there
>> will be a season of transition. And, in time, there will be the
>> similar percentages of success/failure in same-sex marriages as in
>> heterosexual marriages.
>>
>> 10. GLBT people cannot be Christians. I devote an entire blogsite
>> Canyonwalker Connections to this issue. The best starting place is the
>> VERSES tab. If you believe this myth, you are ignoring a movement of
>> God that is exploding around the world. GLBT Christians are growing in
>> number, in spiritual maturity, in gifting and it is happening fast.
>> The best way to see proof is to visit an affirming congregation. Go
>> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>>> affirming pastor in your area
>> from the list and go see what God is doing in His GLBT children. Of
>> course they can be Christians.
>>
>> Lies are evil. Lies breed fear. Myths about people or groups become
>> the basis for forming ideology about others. We have done it to
>> Native Americans, immigrants over our own history, the Irish, the
>> Germans, the Italians, the Jews, the Africans, the Mexicans, the
>> Muslims, the Russians, the "others". On and on. If we repeat the myth
>> enough, maybe it will gain muddy traction and stick. This is what FRC
>> and other Hate Groups do so well. They demonize the gay community. I
>> think they actually believe they are good and fighting the good fight
>> and hanging on to all that is sacred and holy. But, they are lying.
>> That is discrimination. And, while they are doing it, they are causing
>> destruction, that is hate. Maybe the public backlash of being
>> designated a Hate Group will shame them to reassess their message.
>>
>> Now, the final word as a Christian. I think there is something worse
>> than making the SPLC's Hate Groups List. My first concern would be
>> "am I pleasing God?". We all, all, have an image of God in us. We are
>> called to love, respect and serve others. We are called to be shining
>> lights in which others can see some piece of Jesus. Imagine a
>> kicked-out-of-church gay man, a shamed-by-her-family lesbian, a
>> suicidal Mormon teen who knows that honesty means losing family and
>> church, two men that want desperately to get married and build a
>> family, a young bisexual girl who cuts herself in the shame and pain
>> of her sexuality and religious oppression. God loves every one of
>> these people, the same way He loves me. God, in His Word, and Jesus,
>> in His life, told me to treat everyone with equality and love. If the
>> church cannot police our own, perhaps God is using secular
>> organizations to slap His children upside the head? Would not be the
>> first time. I will stand with, beside and in front of my GLBT fellow
>> humans to ensure that they gain equality with me.
>>
>> Family Research Council, you should be more concerned about where you
>> are on God's list of naughty or nice, sheep or goats. And Southern
>> Poverty Law Center, thank you, really . . . thank you.
>>
>> More:
>>
>> http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/11/ten-myths-about-the-glbt-community-a-christian-perspective/
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
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>>
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>
> --
> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
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>
> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
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Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy
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