On Mar 18, 11:28 am, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Keith,
>
> What, if anything makes you believe that the US has a long term
> plan ?? I have seen NO evidence of one.
>
> On Mar 18, 8:17 am, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Good Morning Michael,
>
> > That's a bit of an extreme assessment don't ya think?
>
> > And Jacob? Geesh! Talk about revisionist history......
>
> > Do you think the United States big big really big long term plan, (as
> > Hornberger
> > alludes) was to have, " *a wasteland of death, destruction, depression,
> > and impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing
> > all the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people
> > who resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing
> > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the
> > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S."*
>
> > I think not.
>
> > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 9:48 AM, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> > > *"The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute
> > > disaster. It is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and
> > > impoverishment. And it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all
> > > the things that the Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who
> > > resist the dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing
> > > them, and executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the
> > > interventionists, the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S.
> > > "It's no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of
> > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is
> > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship."
>
> > > *Tuesday, March 13, 2012
> > > *The Time for Soul-Searching Has Arrived
> > > *by Jacob G. Hornberger
>
> > > How ironic. Countless American Christians supported the U.S. government's
> > > war of aggression on Iraq, and now consider this headline from last
> > > Sunday's *New York Times: *"Exodus from North Signals Iraqi Christians'
> > > Slow Decline."
>
> > > And now we learn that an American soldier went on a killing rampage in
> > > Afghanistan, walking into people's homes in a brutal shoot-up that ended up
> > > killing 16 people, including women and children.
>
> > > How come so many Americans still can't recognize that the U.S. invasions
> > > and occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan have been disasters? Why must they
> > > feel compelled to support some type of mythical, delusionary picture that
> > > has nothing to do with reality?
>
> > > Look at Iraq. At first U.S. officials convinced Americans to support an
> > > invasion of the country under a principle of preventive self-defense.
> > > Recall that U.S. officials said the same thing about Iraq that they're now
> > > saying about Iran. Saddam Hussein is on the verge of producing a nuclear
> > > weapon. He intends to attack the United States. We have to attack now. The
> > > smoking gun might be a mushroom cloud rising over American cities.
>
> > > All too many Americans simply deferred to authority, as they had been
> > > taught to do in the government-approved schools they were forced to attend.
> > > U.S. officials have access to information that we don't have, they said.
> > > They would never lie to us. They don't want to go to war against Iraq.
> > > They're just protecting national security.
>
> > > How many Americans even considered the possibility that this was all a
> > > charade, one designed to oust Saddam Hussein from power and replace him
> > > with a pro-U.S. dictator? It wasn't that difficult to see. Don't forget
> > > that that's what those 11 years of brutal sanctions were all about -- the
> > > sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children. The invasion
> > > of Iraq was intended to achieve what the sanctions had not achieved. It
> > > wasn't difficult to frighten Americans into falling for anything after
> > > 9/11.
>
> > > Indeed, what happened after it was determined that there were no WMDs in
> > > Iraq? Did Americans feel bad about having supported a war in which
> > > countless people had been killed and maimed, given that the U.S. government
> > > was wrong in its WMD assessment? Did soldiers have crises of conscience for
> > > having killed and maimed innocent people -- that is, people whose
> > > government never intended to attack the United States with WMDs -- people
> > > who were entirely innocent of the 9/11 attacks. Wouldn't that have been the
> > > time for a massive congressional investigation into whether U.S. officials
> > > had intentionally deceived the American people regarding those WMDs?
>
> > > Nope. Instead, people simply deferred to authority when U.S. officials
> > > shifted to the alternative justification for invading Iraq -- that U.S.
> > > officials actually loved the Iraqi people so much that they wanted to bring
> > > them freedom and democracy through a deadly military invasion and
> > > occupation. And to prove their love of the Iraqi people, U.S. officials
> > > made it clear that they were willing to kill and maim as many Iraqis as
> > > necessary to bring freedom and democracy to Iraq.
>
> > > What a crock. If they loved the Iraqi people so much, how come there was
> > > never an upward limit on the number of Iraqis they were willing to kill and
> > > maim to achieve regime change? How come they treated Iraqis in Abu Ghraib
> > > prison the way that Saddam Hussein treated them? Is that the way you treat
> > > people whom you love?
>
> > > And look at the result in Iraq. U.S. officials, along with their loyal
> > > interventionist supporters, continue to tell the American people that Iraq
> > > is now a paradise of freedom, democracy, and prosperity.
>
> > > Oh? If Iraq is now such a paradise, then why is there an exodus of
> > > Christians from Iraq?
>
> > > The reality is that Iraq is not a paradise. It is an absolute disaster. It
> > > is a wasteland of death, destruction, depression, and impoverishment. And
> > > it is headed by a dictatorial regime that is doing all the things that the
> > > Saddam Hussein regime was doing -- killing people who resist the
> > > dictatorship, incarcerating people without trial, torturing them, and
> > > executing them. Worst of all, from the standpoint of the interventionists,
> > > the regime is more pro-Iran than it is pro-U.S.
>
> > > It's no different in Afghanistan. That country is another wasteland of
> > > death, destruction, impoverishment, and depression. The Karzai regime is
> > > nothing but a crooked, corrupt, brutal pro-U.S. dictatorship.
>
> > > Sure, it's horrible that that U.S. soldier killed those 16 people, but
> > > that's what U.S. forces have been doing ever since they invaded the
> > > country. Just think about all the wedding parties they've bombed and
> > > killed. Think about that Wikileaks video showing that helicopter gunship
> > > firing at people who were doing nothing more than rescuing people who had
> > > been injured from a U.S. attack. Think of all the people who have been
> > > killed, maimed, tortured, and incarcerated -- that is, people who had
> > > nothing to do with 9/11 and whose worst crime wastrying to rid their nation
> > > of an unlawful invader and occupier. Think about all the people who have
> > > been languishing in Bagram prison for years without trial.
>
> > > Oh, but we're not supposed to think about such things. We're supposed to
> > > blindly accept the government's pronouncements. We're supposed to support
> > > the troops. We're supposed to turn a blind eye to the reality of U.S.
> > > foreign policy. We're supposed to suppress our consciences and simply look
> > > down, remaining silent or, better yet, supportive of whatever the
> > > government is doing.
>
> > > Speaking of the law, where are the congressional declarations of war
> > > against Iraq and Afghanistan that the U.S. Constitution requires?
> > > Interventionists can rail against that requirement all they want, but the
> > > law is the law. If they don't like the law, they have a remedy -- get it
> > > changed through constitutional amendment. As long as it's the law, it is
> > > supposed to be followed. If it's now, that makes the U.S. government the
> > > law-breaker.
>
> > > The law wasn't followed, not in Iraq and not in Afghanistan. That makes
> > > both wars illegal under our form of government. The U.S. government is a
> > > lawbreaker in both instances. The invasions and occupations of Iraq and
> > > Afghanistan, which have killed and maimed so many people and destroyed both
> > > countries, have both been conducted in violation of the highest law of our
> > > land, the Constitution, the law that we the people have imposed on our
> > > public officials.
>
> > > And look at what these illegal wars, together with U.S. foreign policy
> > > before 9/11, have done to freedom in our country. We now live under the
> > > iron umbrella of a massive national security state, one that resembles that
> > > of the Soviet Union. The U.S. government now wields the authority to
> > > monitor and spy on Americans, in the name of national security and the war
> > > on terrorism. That's what the KGB and, for that matter, the Gestapo did
> > > too.
>
> > > The government also now wields the authority to round up Americans,
> > > incarcerate them for life without trial, torture them, and even execute
> > > them. The Gestapo and the KGB had the same authority.
>
> > > Indeed, the government now wields the omnipotent power to assassinate
> > > Americans and everyone else in the world. Did the KGB and Gestapo have that
> > > authority? I would assume so but I'm not sure.
>
> > > Meanwhile, Americans continue singing about how free they are. They
> > > continue praising the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan for "defending our
> > > freedoms." No people in history better exemplify the words of Johann Goethe
> > > than the American people of our time: None are more
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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