Sep 24, 2012 || World News

Monday, September 24, 2012

Re: My private on line discussion with a black DC Obamanoid - should I even talk to him?

you can catch him here
http://groups.google.com/group/improvednumber72?hl=en

On Sep 24, 1:56 pm, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Poor Euwe.....A confused Moonbat.....Where is he by the way?
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:54 PM, plainolamerican
> <plainolameri...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because ....
> > ---
> > euwe also says this ... it's a utopian misconception and a sure sign
> > of their blindness
>
> > On Sep 24, 8:52 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > From: *Bruce Majors*
> > > Date: Monday, September 24, 2012
> > > Subject: Re:
> > > To: Carson Brownstone <carsonbrownst...@gmail.com>
>
> > > You are simply dumb little boy programmed as a bot with nonsense like
> > this
> > > by the powers that be.
>
> > > You support a system and attack its opponents, as you have been trained
> > to
> > > do, and as you may very will be paid to do, that leaves many young urban
> > > blacks illiterate, drop outs, with limited life chances. Hence you are
> > > objectively one of the most vicious racists on earth.
>
> > > In addition to this, in your earlier posts you also went off into
> > > delusional fantasies against other races, in which you imagine yourself
> > to
> > > be a victim of slavery (you think you were born a century ago) and in
> > which
> > > I and others were slave owners or segregationist.
>
> > > Like the cannon fodder you are you have been taught to support current
> > > racist statist programs and attack anyone critical of them, calling them
> > > names and discussing your fantasies in which you are a hero who lived a
> > > century ago.
>
> > > That's why you are a racist and a moron.
>
> > > You area both racist and ignorant of how racism works in this society.
> > Are
> > > you educable or are you too stupid to learn?
>
> > > On Monday, September 24, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > > > Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because whites have
> > > > the power. Blacks have not mistreated whites, so we aren't the
> > > > racists. You don't even know what racism is, you stupid libertarian. I
> > > > don't mind blacks moving out of the city, because it creates a mix and
> > > > de-stigmatizes neighorboods. You don't know shit. You're an idiot.
>
> > > > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Yes housing prices up higher than ever so that anyone without a
> > > > government
> > > > > job, including most working class African Americans, have to move
> > out -
> > > > the
> > > > > city is becoming whiter you know, lots of lawyers and lobbyists
> > moving in
> > > > > living off the taxpayers.
>
> > > > > And the drop out rate for DC public schools is over 45 percent.
>
> > > > > Power lines breaking all the time because the city government mis
> > spends
> > > > > money.
>
> > > > > Your racism and stupidity could not be more obvious. You have no
> > idea
> > > > what
> > > > > is happening to people who don't work for the government.
>
> > > > > I have wasted to much time talking than obvious moron.
>
> > > > > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > > > >> Well, these guys don't look bored. They remind me of you. They look
> > like
> > > > >> you.
>
> > > > >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Bruce Majors <
> > majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >> > You bore me dear.
>
> > > > >> > I am not running as a Republican.
>
> > > > >> > However you racist Democrats round up poor black and brown
> > children
> > > > >> > every
> > > > >> > day and sell them to the educrat cartels (where in DC about half
> > of
> > > > them
> > > > >> > drop out from the bad "schools" you Democrats administer) in
> > exchange
> > > > >> > for
> > > > >> > campaign donations for your candidates, and 6 figure salaries for
> > your
> > > > >> > bureaucrats.
>
> > > > >> > When will you Democrats stop profiting off this slave trade?
>
> > > > >> > And you are correct about one thing. I do not care to socialize
> > with
> > > > >> > racists who profit off this slave trade or their supporters,
> > including
> > > > >> > you,
> > > > >> > if you support these racist programs.
>
> > > > >> > Have a blessed day.
>
> > > > >> > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson <CarsonBrownst...@gmail.com
>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >> No, private conservative school with whites, which is why I know
> > > > about
> > > > >> >> you
> > > > >> >> people. Your
>
> > --
> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> > For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> > * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
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Re: My private on line discussion with a black DC Obamanoid - should I even talk to him?

Poor Euwe.....A confused Moonbat.....Where is he by the way?

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 8:54 PM, plainolamerican <plainolamerican@gmail.com> wrote:

Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because ....
---
euwe also says this ... it's a utopian misconception and a sure sign
of their blindness

On Sep 24, 8:52 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Bruce Majors*
> Date: Monday, September 24, 2012
> Subject: Re:
> To: Carson Brownstone <carsonbrownst...@gmail.com>
>
> You are simply dumb little boy programmed as a bot with nonsense like this
> by the powers that be.
>
> You support a system and attack its opponents, as you have been trained to
> do, and as you may very will be paid to do, that leaves many young urban
> blacks illiterate, drop outs, with limited life chances. Hence you are
> objectively one of the most vicious racists on earth.
>
> In addition to this, in your earlier posts you also went off into
> delusional fantasies against other races, in which you imagine yourself to
> be a victim of slavery (you think you were born a century ago) and in which
> I and others were slave owners or segregationist.
>
> Like the cannon fodder you are you have been taught to support current
> racist statist programs and attack anyone critical of them, calling them
> names and discussing your fantasies in which you are a hero who lived a
> century ago.
>
> That's why you are a racist and a moron.
>
> You area both racist and ignorant of how racism works in this society. Are
> you educable or are you too stupid to learn?
>
> On Monday, September 24, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because whites have
> > the power. Blacks have not mistreated whites, so we aren't the
> > racists. You don't even know what racism is, you stupid libertarian. I
> > don't mind blacks moving out of the city, because it creates a mix and
> > de-stigmatizes neighorboods. You don't know shit. You're an idiot.
>
> > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Yes housing prices up higher than ever so that anyone without a
> > government
> > > job, including most working class African Americans, have to move out -
> > the
> > > city is becoming whiter you know, lots of lawyers and lobbyists moving in
> > > living off the taxpayers.
>
> > > And the drop out rate for DC public schools is over 45 percent.
>
> > > Power lines breaking all the time because the city government mis spends
> > > money.
>
> > > Your racism and stupidity could not be more obvious. You have no idea
> > what
> > > is happening to people who don't work for the government.
>
> > > I have wasted to much time talking than obvious moron.
>
> > > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > >> Well, these guys don't look bored. They remind me of you. They look like
> > >> you.
>
> > >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > You bore me dear.
>
> > >> > I am not running as a Republican.
>
> > >> > However you racist Democrats round up poor black and brown children
> > >> > every
> > >> > day and sell them to the educrat cartels (where in DC about half of
> > them
> > >> > drop out from the bad "schools" you Democrats administer) in exchange
> > >> > for
> > >> > campaign donations for your candidates, and 6 figure salaries for your
> > >> > bureaucrats.
>
> > >> > When will you Democrats stop profiting off this slave trade?
>
> > >> > And you are correct about one thing. I do not care to socialize with
> > >> > racists who profit off this slave trade or their supporters, including
> > >> > you,
> > >> > if you support these racist programs.
>
> > >> > Have a blessed day.
>
> > >> > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson <CarsonBrownst...@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >> No, private conservative school with whites, which is why I know
> > about
> > >> >> you
> > >> >> people. Your

--
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Re: My private on line discussion with a black DC Obamanoid - should I even talk to him?

Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because ....
---
euwe also says this ... it's a utopian misconception and a sure sign
of their blindness

On Sep 24, 8:52 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *Bruce Majors*
> Date: Monday, September 24, 2012
> Subject: Re:
> To: Carson Brownstone <carsonbrownst...@gmail.com>
>
> You are simply dumb little boy programmed as a bot with nonsense like this
> by the powers that be.
>
> You support a system and attack its opponents, as you have been trained to
> do, and as you may very will be paid to do, that leaves many young urban
> blacks illiterate, drop outs, with limited life chances. Hence you are
> objectively one of the most vicious racists on earth.
>
> In addition to this, in your earlier posts you also went off into
> delusional fantasies against other races, in which you imagine yourself to
> be a victim of slavery (you think you were born a century ago) and in which
> I and others were slave owners or segregationist.
>
> Like the cannon fodder you are you have been taught to support current
> racist statist programs and attack anyone critical of them, calling them
> names and discussing your fantasies in which you are a hero who lived a
> century ago.
>
> That's why you are a racist and a moron.
>
> You area both racist and ignorant of how racism works in this society. Are
> you educable or are you too stupid to learn?
>
> On Monday, September 24, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because whites have
> > the power. Blacks have not mistreated whites, so we aren't the
> > racists. You don't even know what racism is, you stupid libertarian. I
> > don't mind blacks moving out of the city, because it creates a mix and
> > de-stigmatizes neighorboods. You don't know shit. You're an idiot.
>
> > On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Yes housing prices up higher than ever so that anyone without a
> > government
> > > job, including most working class African Americans, have to move out -
> > the
> > > city is becoming whiter you know, lots of lawyers and lobbyists moving in
> > > living off the taxpayers.
>
> > > And the drop out rate for DC public schools is over 45 percent.
>
> > > Power lines breaking all the time because the city government mis spends
> > > money.
>
> > > Your racism and stupidity could not be more obvious. You have no idea
> > what
> > > is happening to people who don't work for the government.
>
> > > I have wasted to much time talking than obvious moron.
>
> > > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>
> > >> Well, these guys don't look bored. They remind me of you. They look like
> > >> you.
>
> > >> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > You bore me dear.
>
> > >> > I am not running as a Republican.
>
> > >> > However you racist Democrats round up poor black and brown children
> > >> > every
> > >> > day and sell them to the educrat cartels (where in DC about half of
> > them
> > >> > drop out from the bad "schools" you Democrats administer) in exchange
> > >> > for
> > >> > campaign donations for your candidates, and 6 figure salaries for your
> > >> > bureaucrats.
>
> > >> > When will you Democrats stop profiting off this slave trade?
>
> > >> > And you are correct about one thing. I do not care to socialize with
> > >> > racists who profit off this slave trade or their supporters, including
> > >> > you,
> > >> > if you support these racist programs.
>
> > >> > Have a blessed day.
>
> > >> > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson <CarsonBrownst...@gmail.com>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >> No, private conservative school with whites, which is why I know
> > about
> > >> >> you
> > >> >> people. Your

--
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The $50 lesson

Recently, while I was working in the flower beds in the front
garden, my
neighbors stopped to chat as they returned home from walking their
dog.

During our friendly conversation, I asked their 12 year old daughter
what
she wanted to be when she grows up.

She said she wanted to be President one day.

Both of her parents - Democrat voters - were standing there, so I
asked
her: "If you were President what would be the first thing you would
do?"

She replied, "I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people."
Her parents beamed with pride!

"Wow, what a worthy goal!" I said. "But you don't have to wait until
you're
President to do that!" I told her.

"What do you mean?" she replied.

So I told her: "You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull
up the
weeds, trim my hedge and I'll pay you $50. Then you can go down to
the Town
Centre, find a homeless man and can give him the $50 to buy food."

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight
in the
eye and asked, "Why doesn't the homeless man come over and do the work
and
you can just pay him the $50?"

I said, "Welcome to the Republican Party."

Her parents aren't speaking to me any more.

--
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Re: My private on line discussion with a black DC Obamanoid - should I even talk to him?

Carson is not only a racist, he's a Moonbat.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Bruce Majors <majors.bruce@gmail.com> wrote:

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bruce Majors
Date: Monday, September 24, 2012
Subject: Re:
To: Carson Brownstone <carsonbrownstone@gmail.com>

You are simply dumb little boy programmed as a bot with nonsense like this by the powers that be.

You support a system and attack its opponents, as you have been trained to do, and as you may very will be paid to do, that leaves many young urban blacks illiterate, drop outs, with limited life chances. Hence you are objectively one of the most vicious racists on earth.

In addition to this, in your earlier posts you also went off into delusional fantasies against other races, in which you imagine yourself to be a victim of slavery (you think you were born a century ago) and in which I and others were slave owners or segregationist.

Like the cannon fodder you are you have been taught to support current racist statist programs and attack anyone critical of them, calling them names and discussing your fantasies in which you are a hero who lived a century ago.

That's why you are a racist and a moron.

You area both racist and ignorant of how racism works in this society. Are you educable or are you too stupid to learn?

On Monday, September 24, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
Blacks can't be racist. Only whites can be racist because whites have
the power. Blacks have not mistreated whites, so we aren't the
racists. You don't even know what racism is, you stupid libertarian. I
don't mind blacks moving out of the city, because it creates a mix and
de-stigmatizes neighorboods. You don't know shit. You're an idiot.

On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:49 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.bruce@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes housing prices up higher than ever so that anyone without a government
> job, including most working class African Americans, have to move out - the
> city is becoming whiter you know, lots of lawyers and lobbyists moving in
> living off the taxpayers.
>
> And the drop out rate for DC public schools is over 45 percent.
>
> Power lines breaking all the time because the city government mis spends
> money.
>
> Your racism and stupidity could not be more obvious. You have no idea what
> is happening to people who don't work for the government.
>
>
> I have wasted to much time talking than obvious moron.
>
>
> On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson Brownstone wrote:
>>
>> Well, these guys don't look bored. They remind me of you. They look like
>> you.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.bruce@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > You bore me dear.
>> >
>> > I am not running as a Republican.
>> >
>> > However you racist Democrats round up poor black and brown children
>> > every
>> > day and sell them to the educrat cartels (where in DC about half of them
>> > drop out from the bad "schools" you Democrats administer) in exchange
>> > for
>> > campaign donations for your candidates, and 6 figure salaries for your
>> > bureaucrats.
>> >
>> > When will you Democrats stop profiting off this slave trade?
>> >
>> > And you are correct about one thing. I do not care to socialize with
>> > racists who profit off this slave trade or their supporters, including
>> > you,
>> > if you support these racist programs.
>> >
>> > Have a blessed day.
>> >
>> > On Sunday, September 23, 2012, Carson <CarsonBrownstone@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> No, private conservative school with whites, which is why I know about
>> >> you
>> >> people. Your
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>

--
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For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

No Presidential Debate on Fundamental Issues

Monday, September 24, 2012
No Presidential Debate on Fundamental Issues
by Jacob G. Hornberger

The real shame of the Obama-Romney race will be the lack of debate on the fundamental issues facing our nation. Alas, the sad reality is that we've got a race between two statists who are battling over which one of them will make the better leader of a statist system. And that means that the debates and discussions are going to be over the most efficient way to run the statist system rather than over the morality and efficacy of the statist system itself.

Let's consider some examples.

1. The drug war. As statists, Obama and Romney both enthusiastically endorse the drug war. Therefore, their battle is going to be over which one of them will be the better drug-warrior in chief. Their positions will be oriented toward explaining how many drug offenders will be punished and how victory will be possible in another 5 years or so.

There will be no debate over whether the drug war should be continued. In fact, given that mainstream reporters and presidential debate panelists are statists themselves, the probability is that the libertarian position of simply ending the drug war by legalizing drugs won't even be mentioned. It will simply be a given that notwithstanding decades of failure to achieve a drug-free society and decades of collateral violence and corruption, the drug war must and will go on.

2. The welfare state. As statists, both Obama and Romney ardently believe in the welfare state. Sure, Romney is certain to repeat libertarian-like economic mantras, such as "free enterprise, private property, and limited government." And he's surely going to call Obama a socialist. But such mantras and finger-pointing are obviously ridiculous when they come from someone who loves and supports such socialistic programs as Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, education grants, food stamps, foreign aid, and all the rest.

Thus, there will be no debate or discussion over the existence of the welfare state itself. It won't occur to anyone in the mainstream press or the presidential debate panelists to even ask whether welfare-state programs should be repealed. The assumption of every statist is that the welfare state is now a permanent feature of American life and, therefore, that we've just got to get the best people in public office to make it work.

3. The managed economy. As statists, both Obama and Romney believe in a government-managed economy. Thus, their principal battle is over which one of them will make a better job-creator-in-chief.

Neither candidate will challenge the notion of a government-managed economy. Neither one will declare that the government should be creating jobs for people. The concept of a genuine free market that is, a market free entirely of government control or manipulation won't even come up.

4. The warfare state. As statists, both Obama and Romney both embrace the warfare state, including the vast, permanent military-industrial complex, the thousands of domestic military bases, the empire of overseas military bases, invasions, foreign aid, torture, assassinations, occupations, sanctions, the war on terrorism, embargoes, the CIA, and the entire national security state.

Thus, there will be no discussion or debate on whether the United States should abandon its programs of imperialism, foreign interventionism, and foreign aid, including aid to dictatorships. The assumption of both candidates and the mainstream press will be that the warfare state is now a permanent part of American life and must not be tampered with in any fundamental way.

Moreover, neither candidate will challenge the war on terrorism or show that the threat of terrorism comes from U.S. foreign policy. As statists, they both believe in the war on terrorism and feel that it must now go on indefinitely. They both buy into the notion that anti-American terrorism is rooted in hatred for America's "freedom and values."

5. Civil liberties. As statists, both Obama and Romney are willing to sacrifice civil liberties in the quest to keep America "safe." Thus, they both believe in military arrests of civilians, assassinations, torture, and indefinite detention, all without trial by jury. They both favor military tribunals and denial of the principles found in the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eight Amendments. They both believe in having the military wield supreme power over civilians as part of the "war on terrorism."

Thus, there will be no debate over the vital importance of civil liberties in a free society or over the reasons our American ancestors demanded the inclusion of the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, and Eighth Amendments. There will also be no debate over whether such important aspects of liberty should ever be suspended, no matter what the "emergency."

6. Immigration. As statists, both Obama and Romney favor the decades-long war on immigrants. Thus, they both favor heightened enforcement of immigration laws, including raids on private businesses and deportations.

Thus, there will be no debate over whether there should be immigration laws themselves. No one will mention that Americans once lived without immigration controls, which contributed to the economic vitality of the society.

7. Sound money. As statists, both Obama and Romney favor paper money and the Federal Reserve System. They both endorse the decades-long debasement of the dollar as a way to get the economy moving again.

Thus, there will be no debate over gold and silver coins, the monetary system established by the Constitution, which was used by our nation for more than 100 years. There will be no debate over whether the Fed should be abolished. The debate will inevitably revolve around which candidate will get to choose the chairman of the Federal Reserve.

8. Spending. As statists, both Obama and Romney will issue the standard exclamations against out-of-control federal spending and debt. But since they favor the welfare-state programs and the warfare-state programs on which such spending is devoted, their exclamations will be meaningless.

There will be no debate over abolishing welfare-state programs and warfare-state programs, which would bring spending and borrowing to reasonable levels.

9. Income taxation. As statists, both Obama and Romney ardently believe in the IRS and the federal income tax, especially since this is one of the primary vehicles that gets the welfare-warfare state funded.

Thus, there will be no debate over whether the income tax should simply be repealed. There will be no discussion over the fact that Americans lived without a federal income tax for more than a century.

So, the debates between Obama and Romney are going to be more than boring. They're also going to be worthless given that they will be devoted to discussing a system that is morally and economically bankrupt.

When a system fails to work, it's time to consider a new system. Unfortunately, at a time when people should be considering libertarianism, the nation is faced with two statists battling over which one of them is the better statist.

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2012-09-24.asp

I Was Fooled by the War-Makers

I Was Fooled by the War-Makers
by Thomas E. Woods, Posted September 24, 2012

Twenty years ago, as I was completing my freshman year in college, I was a full-blown neoconservative. Except I didn't know it. Having concluded that I was not a leftist, I simply decided by process of elimination that I must be a Rush Limbaughian.

Like most people, I was unaware that any alternative to those two choices existed, or that in some ways they were two sides of a common statist coin. In particular, I embraced a neoconservative foreign policy with gusto. The way to show you weren't a commie was by supporting the U.S. military as it doled out summary justice to bad guys all over the world. And frankly, it was exciting to watch it all unfold on TV.

I never gave the human cost of war a second thought and became impatient with anyone who did. War was like a video game I could enjoy from the comfort of my home. Devastation and human suffering were quite beside the point: the righteous U.S. government was dispensing justice to the wicked, and that was that. What are you, a liberal?

The Persian Gulf War of 1991 was the first U.S. conflict of my college career. During the months-long U.S. military buildup in the Gulf known as Operation Desert Shield I eagerly promoted the mission to anyone foolish enough to listen.

When war came, it was swift and decisive. Very few American casualties were suffered, while the Iraqi forces were destroyed. Some 100,000 were burned alive by a chemical agent or buried alive in the desert while making a retreat.

Believe it or not, that actually bothered me, in spite of how voracious a consumer of war propaganda I was. No one defended Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait, which he launched in response to that country's slant oil drilling, but was the outcome of the Persian Gulf War not a terrible tragedy for the Iraqi people virtually none of whom had had anything to do with Saddam Hussein's fateful decision all the same? A far poorer country than ours suddenly had a lot more widows and orphans, not to mention a great many civilian deaths to grieve over and much destruction to repair.

Lopsided counts

Mothers and fathers were crying themselves to exhaustion over children they had lost, or who, worse still, were dying agonizing deaths before their very eyes. There is no worse anguish for parents than to watch their children suffer and to be helpless to do anything about it.

Was it really right that we Americans should meanwhile be celebrating with a Bob Hope special, and on cue flattered by the ceaseless reminders that ours was the awesomest country ever?

It later transpired that the Kuwaiti government had hired a public-relations firm in the United States to sell the idea of military invasion to the American people. We later learned that the major atrocity story that Iraqi troops had removed Kuwaiti babies from incubators and thrown them onto hospital floors had been a fraud: the emotional young woman who testified to that effect in Washington turned out to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States.

Although I had strongly favored military action by the U.S. government from the start, in the wake of George H.W. Bush's declaration of victory I could not stop thinking about the lopsided casualty counts, the waves of killing rained down on a ramshackle army facing the greatest military machine in the world. Now these were soldiers, not civilians, so by the logic of war I was supposed to hate them or at least not care about them, their deaths being cause for celebration rather than regret.

I was having trouble doing that.

I went to see my European history professor, Charles Maier, to discuss my misgivings about the war. Maier, a liberal in the New Republic mold, suggested I read a recent article in that magazine making the case for the war. I did, and (believe it or not) that helped to suppress any contrary thoughts for a while.

I was already beginning to read libertarian literature by the early 1990s because of my support for the market economy. My reading of the economic works of Murray Rothbard led inevitably to his philosophical works. The Rothbard essay "War, Peace, and the State" leaves an impression on the mind one can never quite shake.

Rothbard famously observed that one could uncover the libertarian position on X by imagining a gang of thugs carrying out the state action in question. If thugs can't just grab your money, for instance, neither can a well-dressed group of thugs calling itself "the state."

"War, Peace, and the State" takes that analysis and applies it to war. If you steal my TV, I can take it back from you. But I may not walk down the street firing a gun every which way and harming third parties in order to make you surrender my TV. Likewise, even assuming a warmaking state to be absolutely in the right, it has no greater moral entitlement to harm third parties in pursuit of its ends than a private individual does.

Simply because some politician utters the word "war," we have been conditioned to believe it just and good that the rights of everyone within the confines of an arbitrary border are abruptly cancelled. What would in any other circumstance be murder and atrocity becomes an antiseptic matter of public policy.

The lingering effects of war can inspire callousness even after the guns have fallen silent. Many of us have seen the notorious clip from 60 Minutes in which Madeleine Albright, then U.S. ambassador to the United Nations and soon-to-be U.S. secretary of State, declared that the price of half a million dead children as a result of the sanctions against Iraq during the 1990s had been "worth it." Note that she did not dispute the figure. She looked the interviewer in the eye and said that the deaths of half a million kids were worth it in pursuit of one man she and her colleagues didn't like.

Now suppose the Soviet Union, during the height of the Cold War, had killed half a million children in the course of a sanctions policy. We would never have heard the end of it.

"We"

One of the great triumphs of the government propaganda machine in self-described democracies is the "we are the government" line. It makes the subject population somewhat more compliant than it might be if a particular family passed down the power to govern from one generation to another, with no chance (short of outright revolution) that anyone else will ever hold the reins of power. More important, criticisms of their government's foreign policy now come to be seen as personal affronts. We are the government, after all, so how dare you criticize "our" foreign policy!

For that reason, opponents of American foreign policy should, when speaking on this topic, eliminate the pronoun "we" from their vocabulary. "We" did not kill those Iraqi kids. In 2002 and 2003 "we" did not repeat transparent untruths about the alleged threat posed by a devastated Iraq. "We" did not lay waste to an already-suffering country, killing hundreds of thousands and displacing four million others.

They did this. The American political class. We did not.

What some Americans did do, though, was to make sorry excuses for their political overlords. Some Americans defended a series of policies which, if pursued by the Soviet Union 30 years ago, they themselves would have condemned as grotesque violations of basic standards of morality. But with the U.S. government as the perpetrator, everything was different. They were as gullible on foreign policy as left-liberals are on domestic policy. They dutifully searched for evidence to corroborate their leaders' claims, even when their leaders had long since abandoned those claims. They accepted the most transparent propaganda without batting an eye.

The insensibility to suffering

Until 1991, I had done pretty much the same thing. But following the Persian Gulf War I began to have doubts. Within a few years I had come to regret my laziness, and the readiness with which I accepted foreign-policy propaganda from the very people I knew I couldn't trust when it came to the economy, the Constitution, or pretty much anything else.

The 19th-century writer Elihu Burritt noted the great sympathy the human race extended to those who have been the victims of misfortunes: famine, shipwreck, railway accidents, whatever. He then invited his readers to "compare the feeling with which the community hears of the loss or peril of a few human lives by these accidents with which the news of the death or mutilation of thousands of men, equally precious, on the field of battle is received."

How different is the valuation! how different in universal sympathy! War seems to reverse our best and boasted civilization, to carry back human society to the dark ages of barbarism, to cheapen the public appreciation of human life almost to the standard of brute beasts.... And this demoralization of sentiment is not confined to the two or three nations engaged in war; it extends to the most distant and neutral nations, and they read of thousands slain or mangled in a single battle with but a little more humane sensibility than they would read of the loss of so many pawns by a move on a chessboard. With what deep sympathy the American nation, even to the very slaves, heard of the suffering in Ireland by the potato famine! What shiploads of corn and provisions they sent over to relieve that suffering! But how little of that benevolent sympathy and of that generous aid would they have given to the same amount of suffering inflicted by war upon the people of a foreign country! This ... is one of the very worst works of war. It is not only the demoralization, but almost the transformation, of human nature. We can generally ascertain how many lives have been lost in a war. The tax-gatherer lets us know how much money it costs. But no registry kept on earth can tell us how much is lost to the world by this insensibility to human suffering which a war produces in the whole family circle of nations.

I was once blind to the effects of war on my own moral compass and to how callous I had become toward entire countries and the fellow human beings who inhabited them. When I collaborated with Murray Polner on We Who Dared to Say No to War: American Antiwar Writing from 1812 to Now (Basic Books, 2008), it was in a spirit of contrition and reparation for having once cheered on what I now know to be evil.

"I am getting more and more convinced that the war-peace question is the key to the whole libertarian business," Rothbard noted privately in 1956. I am equally convinced. If we can't get this right, who cares about the Department of Education or the minimum wage?

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd1206e.asp

Re: Women can finally drive in the Middle East

Plain Ol! Lighten up!
---
my pocket is light enough

On Sep 24, 2:10 am, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> No, but pretty funny (and sad) nevertheless!
>
> Hey ̶N̶e̶v̶i̶l̶l̶e̶ ̶C̶h̶a̶m̶b̶e̶r̶l̶a̶i̶n̶ Plain Ol! Lighten up!
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 6:46 AM, plainolamerican
> <plainolameri...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > not an American concern
>
> > On Sep 23, 11:28 am, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Women in Saudi Arabia and other
> > > Middle Eastern areas are now permitted to drive for the first time.
>
> > > image_jpeg_part
> > > 27KViewDownload
>
> > --
> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> > For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
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Re: Have US officials agreed to ‘clean routes’ for Mexican drugs entering America?

the war on drugs must end. The feds have been and will continue to
lose.

if you want more, subsidize it ... if you want less, tax it.

On Sep 24, 12:15 pm, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> **
> Harold posted: "Jon Rappoport9/24/2012In Chicago, Mexican Sinaloa
> drug-cartel member, Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, sits in prison. He's
> waiting for his October trial to begin, after three years of delays. DEA
> agents arrested him in Mexico City in 2009, on drug-traffi" Respond to
> this post by replying above this line
> New post on *ACGR's "News with Attitude"*
> <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/author/amcogore/> Have US officials agreed to
> 'clean routes' for Mexican drugs entering
> America?<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/08-711/>by
> Harold <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/author/amcogore/>
>
> Jon Rappoport 9/24/2012 In Chicago, Mexican Sinaloa drug-cartel member,
> Jesus Vicente Zambada Niebla, sits in prison. He's waiting for his October
> trial to begin, after three years of delays. DEA agents arrested him in
> Mexico City in 2009, on drug-trafficking charges. Why all the
> postponements? US national security issues are involved. Niebla wants to
> introduce [...]
>
> Read more of this post <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/08-711/>
> *Harold <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/author/amcogore/>* | September 24,
> 2012 at 12:42 pm | Categories: CIA <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=29199>,
> Corruption <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=22388>, Criminal
> Activity<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=398859>,
> DEA <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=105322>,
> DHS<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=418542>,
> Drug Cartels <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=1568490>,
> Drugs<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=6200>,
> Executive <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=53796>,
> FBI<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=68079>,
> Financial <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=7489>,
> Government<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=2311>,
> Mexican Government <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=494317>,
> Politics<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=398>,
> Propaganda <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=13722>,
> Racism<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=13443>,
> Sovereignty <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=69462>, States
> Rights<http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=280753>,
> U.S. Constitution <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/?cat=51155> | URL:http://wp.me/pmtmV-8yX
>
> Comment <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/08-711/#respond> See
> all comments <http://a4cgr.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/08-711/#comments>
>
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Re: 2016 MOVIE NOW ONLINE: FULL MOVIE VERSION

Nein.....No NetFlix, or Blockbuster in Deutschland!
---
I can only imagine what you're doing there.
I hope all is well.

On Sep 24, 12:02 pm, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Plain Ol!
>
> Nein.....No NetFlix, or Blockbuster in Deutschland! Nothing that is from
> CBS/Viacom, Sony, or a half a dozen other major media conglomorates will
> play over here.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Bear Bear <thatbear...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *wow. that got taken down fast. Google playing politics again? Makes one
> > wonder.
>
> > I really want to see it too.
>
> > Bear
> > *
>
> > On 24 September 2012 10:05, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> This got removed after I sent it. Same on 2 other sources I got it from.
>
> >> On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Maybe it's because I am here in Germany, but I sure can't get this
> >>> video. I saw several things posted on FaceBook and in various forums about
> >>> this movie being on line, and everywhere I have looked, it ain't there!
>
> >>> If anyone finds a working link to it, I would love to see it! To date,
> >>> it is not showing in Deutsch theatres!
>
> >>> On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> YouTube 2016 MOVIE NOW ONLINE: FULL MOVIE VERSION****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> Dinesh D'Souza's movie on Obama: 2016 is now on YouTube****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDY6v8KdSYs&feature=player_embedded****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> Click here: Vimeo - YouTube<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDY6v8KdSYs&feature=player_embedded>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> .****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> .****
>
> >>>> ****
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> >>>> For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
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>
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>
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> >> --
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>
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Re: POS Has Time For Whoopi–But Not For Bibi

POS Has Time For Whoopi–But Not For Bibi
---
why do you fear the muzzies so much?

On Sep 24, 12:16 pm, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's rename the Whoopee Cushion the Obama Cushion.
>
> **
> Terry posted: "Senior Obama campaign adviser Robert Gibbs on Sunday
> defended the president's plan to appear on ABC's "The View" while skipping
> any private meetings with world leaders gathered in New York this week for
> the United Nations General Assembly. Appe" Respond to this post by
> replying above this line
> New post on *Fellowship of the Minds*
> <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/author/iriemon203/> POS Has Time
> For Whoopi–But Not For
> Bibi<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/pos-has-time-for-wh...>by
> Terry <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/author/iriemon203/>
>
> Senior Obama campaign adviser Robert Gibbs on Sunday defended the
> president's plan to appear on ABC's "The View" while skipping any private
> meetings with world leaders gathered in New York this week for the United
> Nations General Assembly.
>
> Appearing on "Fox News Sunday," Gibbs told host Chris Wallace he has "no
> problem" with Obama's decision to swap one-on-one meetings with his foreign
> counterparts for a joint appearance with first lady Michelle Obama on the
> daytime talk show. The Associated Press
> described<http://news.yahoo.com/obama-election-mode-tightens-un-diplomacy-11244...>such
> sessions as "where much of the U.N. works gets done" and said Obama
> was leaving Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to handle more of them.
>
> "You say that he's got schedules, that foreign leaders have schedules,"
> Wallace said. "He has time for Whoopi Goldberg but he doesn't have time for
> world leaders?"
>
> Gibbs, the former White House press secretary, insisted Obama would be
> "actively involved" in the U.N. proceedings, to which Wallace said Obama
> was "giving a speech."
>
> "Chris, they have telephones in the White House," Gibbs said. "Last week,
> he talked to the president of Egypt. He talked to the leader in Libya. We
> don't need a meeting in Washington just to confer with leaders. "
>
> Watch Gibbs try to flip the conversation (the usual dimtard tactic) :
>
> Courtesy of TheBlaze<http://www.theblaze.com/stories/foxs-chris-wallace-to-robert-gibbs-ob...>
> *Terry <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/author/iriemon203/>* |
> September 24, 2012 at 6:13 am | Tags: Chris
> Wallace<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?tag=chris-wallace>,
> Fox News Sunday<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?tag=fox-news-sunday>,
> Robert Gibbs <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?tag=robert-gibbs>, The
> View <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?tag=the-view>, Whoopi
> Goldberg<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?tag=whoopi-goldberg>|
> Categories: 2012
> Election <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=4934384>,
> Liberals/Democrats <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=74187125>,
> Media <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=292>,
> Obama<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=376320>,
> United Nations <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=59722>, US
> Presidents <http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/?cat=51656283> | URL:http://wp.me/pKuKY-hlZ
>
> Comment<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/pos-has-time-for-wh...>
> See all comments<http://fellowshipofminds.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/pos-has-time-for-wh...>
>
> Unsubscribe or change your email settings at Manage
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Re: Pentagon orders Islamic sensitivity training for U.S. troops after Afghans murder them

Pentagon orders Islamic sensitivity training
----
http://romanticpoet.wordpress.com/tag/u-s-military-sensitivity-training-rules-of-engagement/
This F#@#$%^ As#@*&* is getting us killed over here and it's going to
get a lot worse… thanks to this F@%^&$#in idiot Obama!
You will never win sh## until the Taliban are taken out (dead) and the
locals can finally feel safe. If this is the stupid F#@#@$%^ way
we're supposed to fight you people back home might as well pull us out
now and give it back to the F'n Taliban!
NOTE: The Mainstream Media and the White House did not authorize the
publication of the unofficial response.
http://www.theobamafile.com/
There you have it America…….fighting WAR the LIBERAL WAY!
What will be Obama's response the next time America is attacked?
"I didn't see this coming"?
"They said they were going to be good guys"?
"We offered them tea and they promised they wouldn't do this"?
---
and for what?

On Sep 24, 12:18 pm, Travis <baconl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> **
> creeping posted: "Submitting troops to sharia law? Bring them home. via
> Paul Sperry: The Pentagon is blaming US troops for 'friendly fire' attacks
> that have killed dozens of Americans, ordering sensitivity training about
> Islam - NYPOST.com. Afghan security forces, our sup" Respond to this
> post by replying above this line
> New post on *Creeping Sharia*
> <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/author/creeping/> Pentagon orders
> Islamic sensitivity training for U.S. troops after Afghans murder
> them<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/pentagon-orders-islami...>by
> creeping <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/author/creeping/>
>
> Submitting troops to sharia law? Bring them home. via Paul Sperry: The
> Pentagon is blaming US troops for 'friendly fire' attacks that have killed
> dozens of Americans, ordering sensitivity training about Islam -
> NYPOST.com. Afghan security forces, our supposed allies, are slaughtering
> American troops. Thirty-three soldiers have been killed by "green on blue"
> attacks this [...]
>
> Read more of this
> post<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2012/09/24/pentagon-orders-islami...>
> *creeping <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/author/creeping/>* |
> September 24, 2012 at 12:45 PM | Tags: Barack
> Obama<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?tag=barack-obama>,
> Creeping Sharia <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?tag=creeping-sharia>,
> islam <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?tag=islam>,
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> Muslim<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?tag=muslim>,
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> travel<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?tag=travel>| Categories:
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> Sharia<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?cat=4115925>,
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> East<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?cat=3250>,
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> News<http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?cat=103>,
> Politics <http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/?cat=398>,
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>
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Pentagon orders Islamic sensitivity training for U.S. troops after Afghans murder them

Respond to this post by replying above this line

New post on Creeping Sharia

Pentagon orders Islamic sensitivity training for U.S. troops after Afghans murder them

by creeping

Submitting troops to sharia law? Bring them home. via Paul Sperry: The Pentagon is blaming US troops for 'friendly fire' attacks that have killed dozens of Americans, ordering sensitivity training about Islam - NYPOST.com. Afghan security forces, our supposed allies, are slaughtering American troops. Thirty-three soldiers have been killed by "green on blue" attacks this [...]

Former asst to chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff favors sharia over free speech

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Former asst to chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff favors sharia over free speech

by creeping

It's not about a movie. It's about freedom. Freedom to think and speak freely. You can't protest politicians now thanks to a secret un-Constitutional executive order supported overwhelmingly by both parties and soon discussing Islam could be a crime. Muslims and those who aid and abet them want to dispossess us of the most vital [...]