Re: FW: [CCCC-USA] Keep in touch, Folks

Amendment 7, is almost exclusively civil, sans fines exceeding a
double-saw.

I am more than happy to admit I am missing your point, l if you would
be so good as to clarify

On Jan 3, 11:41 am, Daniel Seigler <danielseig...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> sign me
> daniel karl seigler, born in Fort Benning, Cussetta County, Georgia, son of
> Clarance Roland O'Neil Seigler, born in Ozark, Dale County, Alabama, son of
> Thomas Malcolm Seigler, born somewhere in Alabama
>
> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:10:12 -0800
> From:
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From:
>
>       scantv77To all of you who want to set up Common Law in your areaSat Jan 1, 2011 03:5299.175.82.173
> Basic Manual for Common Law: PLEASE PASS THIS ON
>
> Due
>  to a lack of concise information for reference on Common Law it has
> been deemed necessary to make this manual available. Through the years
> there has been less and less written about the step by step methods used
>  to proceed with Common Law. Books that would have been on the shelves
> appear to have disappeared with time. Even what has been put into
> written form tends to be just brief mention of the Common Law at best.
>
> Now
>  keep in mind that in Common Law it is up to the individuals setting up
> the Common Law procedure to decide on what works for their own purposes.
>  When other courts try to negate the validity of the Common Law the
> first rule outlined in the Seventh Amendment as found I the Constitution
>  for the United States of America Bill of Rights "Amendment 7 - Trial by
>  Jury in Civil Cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.In Suits at common law, where
> the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial
>  by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be
> otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according
> to the rules of the common law."
>
> Common Law has supremacy over
> courts or 'legal' forms due to being Lawful. Common Law is what truly
> founded the United States of America.
> Common Law is the basis, to put back Checks and Balances to restore Justice.
> Common Law is the foundation of the will of the people to speak out.
>
> By
>  special assignment from the Western Washington Assembly, you have the
> opportunity to have the Chief Justice of the Common Law 3rd Circuit come
>  to your location and assist you in the paperwork, setting up and
> answering questions you may have on how to proceed. Just email
> washingtonclc3rdcirc...@gmail.com  your requests.
>
> 1. After your
> assembly selects a judge according to your location, State Constitution,
>  Common wealth, etc.. The Judge must proceed in a Constitutional manner
> to affirm or take Oath of Office with bond as set by the Assembly. This
> appointment must be signed by person(s) in authority it verify the
> election by the Assembly of the judge and duly sealed or notarized under
>  the Notary Act of 1850.
>
> 2. Next, an address, contact phone
> number, and email for the Common Law, have Seals made, and filing
> procedures must be put into place.
>
> 3. The Judge will choose a
> clerk or associates needed to properly record all proceedings, usually
> done via digital recording. Then it is time to take submissions for the
> Common Law process. After submission[The Assembly must decide what is a
> proper submission usually it has at least three points of Law, one of
> which is Constitutional and follows the simple Motion, Memorandum,
> Exhibits, Proof of Service, Proposed Order] is made, the time and place
> of the next Common Law jury is to be held should be chosen to be able to
>  notify all parties involved with the process. This location must be
> open to the public and suitable to hold the court for a long enough
> duration of time for the jury to bring in their decision. Jury consists
> of 6-12 members (if needed 2 alternates) of the peers or members of the
> local assembly. However, remember that setting rules for the jury is up
> to the will of the people. In other words, the decision of how to handle
>  jury selection and so on is up to the local assembly or recognized
> authorities of the Assembly with the backing of the will of the people.
> Remember that the Assembly and or the Common Law must meet at least once
>  a week to be viable.
>
> 4. Duty of the Judge is to hold to the
> basics of Due Process, make sure all of the jury questions are answered
> and keep the proceedings moving, without swaying the jury one way or
> another, to a decision. Then the Judge will finalize paperwork from the
> findings of the jury. Proper procedures should be followed when signing
> and sealing the paperwork involved. See examples in your old local
> archives or request assistance to be able to do this.
>
> 5. If the
> paperwork is an extension of the local municipal or de facto court
> system the findings should be filed right away at the appropriate
> location(s). If paperwork is not filed in this manner then arrangement
> must be made for Common Law files to remain safe.
>
> Now to all of
> you who already have their Common Law in place. There are infiltrators
> who will insist that you must be a GRAND JURY or you MUST go through
> other than Common Law to proceed. WARNING, WARNING, WARNING do NOT go
> away from the Constitution for the United States of America 7th
> Amendment
>
> --- On Tue, 12/6/05, Michael H. Nowik <survivor...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> From: Michael H. Nowik <survivor...@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [CCCC-USA] Keep in touch, Folks
> To: CCCC-...@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2005, 7:34 AM
>
> folks, I want you all to know it is difficult for me to keep up with
>
> the group without a personal computer.  So I will try to stay in touch
>
> by phone mostly with those who call me.
>
> Mike
>
> PLEASE TAKE NOTE:  You may modify your membership settings if you choose not to receive individual group emails but would rather participate on our group site where you can also view messages and post your own at any time.  The address is:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CCCC-USAfor more information.
>
> Subscribe:  CCCC-USA-subscr...@yahoogroups.com
>
> Post message: CCCC-...@yahoogroups.com  
>
> Unsubscribe:  CCCC-USA-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com
>
> List owner:  CCCC-USA-ow...@yahoogroups.com
>
> If you wish to unsubscribe from this group at any time, please follow instructions in group emails or by sending your request to: CCCC-USA-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com  
>
> Regards,
>
> CITIZENS' CONSTITUTIONAL COMMAND CENTER
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Re: From Vice President Biden: We want to say thank you, Tommy

Ouch, huh?

On Dec 30 2010, 9:55 am, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
> Kenneth W. Starr.
>
> On Dec 30, 9:24 am, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Oh and hey Tommy!  Remember when BobPackwood(R-OR) was ridden out of
> > congress on a rail?
>
> > Guess who the special prosecutor was that rode him out
>
> > On Dec 30, 9:12 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > Studds "should have been shot" ?
>
> > > Your violent, judgemental hatred is showing again, Greg. Just when I
> > > was starting to think you had some logical moderate sanity in you, you
> > > have lost my faith in you again.
>
> > > Repeal the Second Amendment, get rid of all the guns and nukes gradually!
>
> > > Peace and Love.
>
> > > On 12/30/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Clinton copped to both impeachment charges and took his medicine.
>
> > > > Foley should have been tossed, and was.
>
> > > > Studds should have been shot, and was reelected five times.
>
> > > > "So what", indeed
>
> > > > On Dec 29, 9:30 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> And Bill Clinton was impeached by a Republican Congress led by
> > > >> adulterous Newt Bedhopper Frogrich for getting a blow job from intern
> > > >> Monica Lewinsky.
> > > >> So what?
>
> > > >> On 12/29/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > Oh, such a charming game.
>
> > > >> > Republican Mark Foley lost his job for emailing a page (and rightfully
> > > >> > so)
>
> > > >> > Democrat Gerry Studds was censured for FUCKING one and reelected five
> > > >> > times.
>
> > > >> > Ya really wanna go there - cuz a certain whorehouse in a Rep's house
> > > >> > in DC (tax payer funded) is next?
>
> > > >> > On Dec 29, 11:19 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> Yes.
>
> > > >> >> To GOP Senator Larry Craig-
>
> > > >> >> Don't tap those toes, use that wide stance and air masturbation
> > > >> >> signals on that cute cop, and then proclaim that "I am not Gay!" after
> > > >> >> you are arrested for your lewed public restroom behavior.
>
> > > >> >> Bingo!
>
> > > >> >> On 12/29/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> > A 2 sided art.
>
> > > >> >> > 1.  Call the guy an asshole, and have him thank you for the
> > > >> >> > compliment
>
> > > >> >> > 2.  Don't piss down my back and tell me its raining, Senator -
> > > >> >> > Fletcher, The Outlaw Josie Wales
>
> > > >> >> > On Dec 29, 10:55 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> Bingo, Greg. Bravo!
>
> > > >> >> >> On 12/29/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> > We are on the same page amico.  Touche.
>
> > > >> >> >> > For example - "Read the fucking constitution you unamerican idiot"
> > > >> >> >> > -
> > > >> >> >> > gets tossed instantly
>
> > > >> >> >> > But, "Your position on yadda-yadda indicates a lack of
> > > >> >> >> > understanding
> > > >> >> >> > of our constitution, and I would appreciate the opportunity of
> > > >> >> >> > discussing this in further detail" - gets read
>
> > > >> >> >> > Sorry for my assumption.  We be good
>
> > > >> >> >> > On Dec 29, 10:01 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> Greg-
>
> > > >> >> >> >> I generally do not come right out and call elected officials
> > > >> >> >> >> "unamerican idiots". I am skilled in the fine art of both veiled
> > > >> >> >> >> and
> > > >> >> >> >> blatant insults, as you may have seen in my posts. Some get it,
> > > >> >> >> >> and
> > > >> >> >> >> it
> > > >> >> >> >> sails right over the heads of others. Elected officials are not
> > > >> >> >> >> always
> > > >> >> >> >> the brightest bulbs on the Christmas Tree.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> On 12/29/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> >> > Couldn't agree more Tom.  Take it from someone whom has worked
> > > >> >> >> >> > a
> > > >> >> >> >> > few
> > > >> >> >> >> > campaigns.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> > If you call the rep an unamerican idiot, the rep will never see
> > > >> >> >> >> > it.
> > > >> >> >> >> > Its a GUARANTEED, swing and a miss.  You might get an
> > > >> >> >> >> > autoreply,
> > > >> >> >> >> > but
> > > >> >> >> >> > it was never seen by anyone in any public office.  Odds are it
> > > >> >> >> >> > goes
> > > >> >> >> >> > right into the trash bin or folder.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > Cool.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > See, I didn't put my form letters on a message board with
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > bravado.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > Oh, calling political reps idiots is kinda idiotic, and
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > patently
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > counter-productive.  The rep will never see it
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > On Dec 28, 11:37 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> So?
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> I have form letters up the ying yang from Rethugs who
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> missed
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> fact
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> that I just called them obsructionist un-American idiots.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> On 12/28/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > If have form letters up my wazoo, Tommy.  Mostly from
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > dems
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > who
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > missed
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > the fact that I had just told them they were wrong about
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > everything
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > (ande thats pretty hard to do).
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > I wouldn't have that framed.  You're one of 10 million
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >http://www.usnews.com/mobile/articles_mobile/biden-hints-at-obama-ree...
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > On Dec 28, 6:15 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> > wrote:
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Joe Biden
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 12:23:38 -0500
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Subject: We want to say thank you, Tommy
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Tommy --
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I've been in Washington for almost 40 years. I've seen a
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> lot
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> of
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Congresses come and go. But I can't remember a group of
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> lawmakers
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> who
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> accomplished more than the folks who just wrapped up
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> their
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> work.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> With their help, we repealed "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ratified
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> START arms control treaty. We passed a new law to rein
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> in
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> abuses
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> on Wall Street and protect consumers. We reformed the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> health
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> care
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> system and passed the Recovery Act to get our economy
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> growing
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> again.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But do you know why all that happened? Because people
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> like
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> you
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> rolled
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> up your sleeves, dug deep, and decided to make a
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> difference.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> We
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> had
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> a
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> dedicated group of lawmakers -- no doubt -- but they
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> were
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> supported
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> every step of the way by folks from all across this
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> country
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> who
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> were
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ready for change. People like you.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I know how much that means to me. And I can't even begin
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> tell
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> you
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> how
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> much it means to the President.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> So here's the deal: President Obama wants to send you a
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> note
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> to
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> express how grateful we are for all you did.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Two years ago, we were staring into an abyss. The
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> financial
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> crisis
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> was
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the worst this country has faced since the Great
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Depression.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> But this Congress passed the largest set of tax cuts for
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> middle
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> class since President Reagan, the largest education
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> reform
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> since
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> President Johnson, the largest infrastructure investment
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> since
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> President Eisenhower, and the largest clean-energy bill
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ever.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Now -- even though we still have a ways to go -- the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> economy
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> is
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> growing
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> again.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Prior to this Congress, lawmakers had talked about
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> reforming
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> health
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> care for almost a century. But with the President
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> leading
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> the
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> way,
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> these folks went out, and -- with you at their side --
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> they
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> did
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> it.
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Now 32 million more Americans will have access to health
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> coverage.
>
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> When we came into office, just about the entire country
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> had
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> come
> > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> to
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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FW: [CCCC-USA] Keep in touch, Folks

sign me
daniel karl seigler, born in Fort Benning, Cussetta County, Georgia, son of
Clarance Roland O'Neil Seigler, born in Ozark, Dale County, Alabama, son of
Thomas Malcolm Seigler, born somewhere in Alabama

---

Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:10:12 -0800
From:

----- Forwarded Message ----
From:
 

scantv77 To all of you who want to set up Common Law in your area Sat Jan 1, 2011 03:52 99.175.82.173 Basic Manual for Common Law: PLEASE PASS THIS ON Due to a lack of concise information for reference on Common Law it has been deemed necessary to make this manual available. Through the years there has been less and less written about the step by step methods used to proceed with Common Law. Books that would have been on the shelves appear to have disappeared with time. Even what has been put into written form tends to be just brief mention of the Common Law at best. Now keep in mind that in Common Law it is up to the individuals setting up the Common Law procedure to decide on what works for their own purposes. When other courts try to negate the validity of the Common Law the first rule outlined in the Seventh Amendment as found I the Constitution for the United States of America Bill of Rights "Amendment 7 - Trial by Jury in Civil Cases. Ratified 12/15/1791.In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law." Common Law has supremacy over courts or 'legal' forms due to being Lawful. Common Law is what truly founded the United States of America. Common Law is the basis, to put back Checks and Balances to restore Justice. Common Law is the foundation of the will of the people to speak out. By special assignment from the Western Washington Assembly, you have the opportunity to have the Chief Justice of the Common Law 3rd Circuit come to your location and assist you in the paperwork, setting up and answering questions you may have on how to proceed. Just email washingtonclc3rdcircuit@gmail.com your requests. 1. After your assembly selects a judge according to your location, State Constitution, Common wealth, etc.. The Judge must proceed in a Constitutional manner to affirm or take Oath of Office with bond as set by the Assembly. This appointment must be signed by person(s) in authority it verify the election by the Assembly of the judge and duly sealed or notarized under the Notary Act of 1850. 2. Next, an address, contact phone number, and email for the Common Law, have Seals made, and filing procedures must be put into place. 3. The Judge will choose a clerk or associates needed to properly record all proceedings, usually done via digital recording. Then it is time to take submissions for the Common Law process. After submission[The Assembly must decide what is a proper submission usually it has at least three points of Law, one of which is Constitutional and follows the simple Motion, Memorandum, Exhibits, Proof of Service, Proposed Order] is made, the time and place of the next Common Law jury is to be held should be chosen to be able to notify all parties involved with the process. This location must be open to the public and suitable to hold the court for a long enough duration of time for the jury to bring in their decision. Jury consists of 6-12 members (if needed 2 alternates) of the peers or members of the local assembly. However, remember that setting rules for the jury is up to the will of the people. In other words, the decision of how to handle jury selection and so on is up to the local assembly or recognized authorities of the Assembly with the backing of the will of the people. Remember that the Assembly and or the Common Law must meet at least once a week to be viable. 4. Duty of the Judge is to hold to the basics of Due Process, make sure all of the jury questions are answered and keep the proceedings moving, without swaying the jury one way or another, to a decision. Then the Judge will finalize paperwork from the findings of the jury. Proper procedures should be followed when signing and sealing the paperwork involved. See examples in your old local archives or request assistance to be able to do this. 5. If the paperwork is an extension of the local municipal or de facto court system the findings should be filed right away at the appropriate location(s). If paperwork is not filed in this manner then arrangement must be made for Common Law files to remain safe. Now to all of you who already have their Common Law in place. There are infiltrators who will insist that you must be a GRAND JURY or you MUST go through other than Common Law to proceed. WARNING, WARNING, WARNING do NOT go away from the Constitution for the United States of America 7th Amendment --- On Tue, 12/6/05, Michael H. Nowik <survivormhn@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Michael H. Nowik <survivormhn@yahoo.com> Subject: [CCCC-USA] Keep in touch, Folks To: CCCC-USA@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2005, 7:34 AM folks, I want you all to know it is difficult for me to keep up with the group without a personal computer.  So I will try to stay in touch by phone mostly with those who call me. Mike PLEASE TAKE NOTE:  You may modify your membership settings if you choose not to receive individual group emails but would rather participate on our group site where you can also view messages and post your own at any time.  The address is:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CCCC-USA for more information. Subscribe:  CCCC-USA-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Post message: CCCC-USA@yahoogroups.com  Unsubscribe:  CCCC-USA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com List owner:  CCCC-USA-owner@yahoogroups.com    If you wish to unsubscribe from this group at any time, please follow instructions in group emails or by sending your request to: CCCC-USA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com  Regards, CITIZENS' CONSTITUTIONAL COMMAND CENTER SPONSORED LINKS North dakota flag North dakota divorce North dakota lawyer North dakota ford dealer North dakota attorney Fargo north dakota hotel YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "CCCC-USA" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  CCCC-USA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

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Re: Something to keep in mind about that California High Speed Train

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you AMTRAK, as it opens its 38th
consecutive year drowning in red ink. Try that in the dreaded private
sector.

On Jan 3, 10:11 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's hilarious that statist think something like this is a priority for a
> crumbling bankrupt state
>
> I just took the excellent Chinatown bus roundtrip from DC to Philly and DC
> to Manhattan in the past year.  DC to NYC is $35 roundtrip and takes no
> longer than Amtrak, the government train, which cost 3 times as much and
> derails and crashes several times a year.
>
> There are also a variety of companies offering this service, some with wifi,
> TV, etc.
>
> On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:51 AM, dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net>wrote:
>
>
>
> > Beldar said...
>
> > The linked NYT article asserts that the magic train has "the promise of
> > creating tens — even hundreds — of thousands of jobs."
>
> > If so, then according to the latest statewide figures from the federal
> > Bureau of Labor Statistics, the train will provide California with more jobs
> > than are currently available to everyone employed in California's "Farming,
> > Fishing, and Forestry Occupations" combined.
>
> > More than all of the "Truck Drivers, Light or Delivery Services," and more
> > than all of the "Truck Drivers, Heavy and Tractor-Trailer" -- indeed, almost
> > as many as both of those categories combined. ¡Este tren es muy potente y
> > mágico!
>
> > It will create more jobs than all of California presently has "Customer
> > Service Representatives," and more than all of its "Bookkeeping, Accounting,
> > and Auditing Clerks."
>
> > The magic train will create more than twice as many jobs as California
> > currently has carpenters. In fact, on a permanent basis, it will provide
> > almost one-third as many jobs as presently exist in the entire state's
> > entire construction industry. We know this to be true, because we read it in
> > the nation's Newspaper of Record.
>
> > The magic train will create seven new jobs for every lawyer who currently
> > works in California, if we believe the NYT. And you can't swing a dead cat
> > in California without hitting one lawyer (and another offering to defend you
> > against his lawsuit).
>
> > What's California world-famous for? Hollywood. Well, this train will be so
> > magic that it will create almost as many new jobs as are currently employed
> > in all of California's "Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media
> > Occupations" put together.
>
> > 1/2/11 10:25 PM
>
> > --
> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> > For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> > * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/ * It's
> > active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls. * Read the latest
> > breaking news, and more.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Re: Fwd: Google Groups: You've been invited to Objectivism Seminar Announcements

Funny, I just watched a show on the band Rush's 2112 album, and had
forgotten its a tribute to Ayn. This of course pissed of the music
"intelligencia" at places like Rolling Stone to no end, but the
problem was that Neil Pert is smarter than all of them combined, and
the audience didn't give a fuck what RS thought

On Jan 3, 10:17 am, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> WELCOME TO THE NEW OBJECTIVISM SEMINAR!
>
> First, a quick administrative thing. You signed up at our old website, but
> we're moving away from that system and will instead just use this simple
> email
> list for the occasional administrative message to keep you in the loop. Due
> to
> fairly reasonable anti-spam measures at Google Groups, I can't just slam you
> into this email list: you need to ACCEPT this invitation to stay in the loop
> --
>  simply click on the long, ugly link below and you're in! No more hassle
> than
> that.
>
> There are a bunch of great changes you'll see when you visit our shiny, new
> website atwww.ObjectivismSeminar.com:Probably most important is the new
> format where we'll be studying a series of essays drawn from Rand's
> anthologies and the like -- chosen with your input! Also, for those times
> when
> an hour of realtime discussion just isn't enough to get it all out, there is
> a
> new (separate) email list you can join for open discussion of anything and
> everything that's come up in the Seminar. (See the site's communication
> resources page for more information on these.)
>
> The live sessions resume on Monday with a discussion of Rand's essay
> "Egalitarianism and Inflation" from _Philosophy: Who Needs It_. I hope you
> can
> join us for it!
>
> Thanks,
> Greg Perkins
>
> Here is the group's description:
>
> This is the administrative announcement list for The Objectivism Seminar, a
> weekly online conference call to systematically engage the philosophy of Ayn
> Rand via the works of prominent Objectivist scholars. Only the manager(s)
> can
> send messages via this list.
>
> ---------------------- Google Groups Information ----------------------
>
> You can accept this invitation by clicking the following URL:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/objectivism-seminar-announcements/sub?...
>
> --------------------- If This Message Is Unwanted ---------------------
>
> If you feel that this message is abuse, please inform the Google Groups
> staff
> by using the URL below.
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups/abuse?invite=YgAAABt9B7itAAAAXE4BDF0A...

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Fwd: Google Groups: You've been invited to Objectivism Seminar Announcements

WELCOME TO THE NEW OBJECTIVISM SEMINAR!

First, a quick administrative thing. You signed up at our old website, but
we're moving away from that system and will instead just use this simple email
list for the occasional administrative message to keep you in the loop. Due to
fairly reasonable anti-spam measures at Google Groups, I can't just slam you
into this email list: you need to ACCEPT this invitation to stay in the loop --
 simply click on the long, ugly link below and you're in! No more hassle than
that.

There are a bunch of great changes you'll see when you visit our shiny, new
website at www.ObjectivismSeminar.com: Probably most important is the new
format where we'll be studying a series of essays drawn from Rand's
anthologies and the like -- chosen with your input! Also, for those times when
an hour of realtime discussion just isn't enough to get it all out, there is a
new (separate) email list you can join for open discussion of anything and
everything that's come up in the Seminar. (See the site's communication
resources page for more information on these.)

The live sessions resume on Monday with a discussion of Rand's essay
"Egalitarianism and Inflation" from _Philosophy: Who Needs It_. I hope you can
join us for it!

Thanks,
Greg Perkins

Here is the group's description:

This is the administrative announcement list for The Objectivism Seminar, a
weekly online conference call to systematically engage the philosophy of Ayn
Rand via the works of prominent Objectivist scholars. Only the manager(s) can
send messages via this list.

---------------------- Google Groups Information ----------------------

You can accept this invitation by clicking the following URL:

http://groups.google.com/group/objectivism-seminar-announcements/sub?s=givhqAwAAABvuBP-gwirJjhjs6z57Iry&hl=en


--------------------- If This Message Is Unwanted ---------------------

If you feel that this message is abuse, please inform the Google Groups staff
by using the URL below.

http://groups.google.com/groups/abuse?invite=YgAAABt9B7itAAAAXE4BDF0AAAAAACCMnTfk57XFr2l_C1gek6mrI28&hl=en

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Re: Something to keep in mind about that California High Speed Train

It's hilarious that statist think something like this is a priority for a crumbling bankrupt state

I just took the excellent Chinatown bus roundtrip from DC to Philly and DC to Manhattan in the past year.  DC to NYC is $35 roundtrip and takes no longer than Amtrak, the government train, which cost 3 times as much and derails and crashes several times a year.

There are also a variety of companies offering this service, some with wifi, TV, etc.

On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 9:51 AM, dick thompson <rhomp2002@earthlink.net> wrote:

Beldar said...

The linked NYT article asserts that the magic train has "the promise of creating tens — even hundreds — of thousands of jobs."

If so, then according to the latest statewide figures from the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics, the train will provide California with more jobs than are currently available to everyone employed in California's "Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations" combined.

More than all of the "Truck Drivers, Light or Delivery Services," and more than all of the "Truck Drivers, Heavy and Tractor-Trailer" -- indeed, almost as many as both of those categories combined. ¡Este tren es muy potente y mágico!

It will create more jobs than all of California presently has "Customer Service Representatives," and more than all of its "Bookkeeping, Accounting, and Auditing Clerks."

The magic train will create more than twice as many jobs as California currently has carpenters. In fact, on a permanent basis, it will provide almost one-third as many jobs as presently exist in the entire state's entire construction industry. We know this to be true, because we read it in the nation's Newspaper of Record.

The magic train will create seven new jobs for every lawyer who currently works in California, if we believe the NYT. And you can't swing a dead cat in California without hitting one lawyer (and another offering to defend you against his lawsuit).

What's California world-famous for? Hollywood. Well, this train will be so magic that it will create almost as many new jobs as are currently employed in all of California's "Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations" put together.

1/2/11 10:25 PM

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Re: From Vice President Biden: We want to say thank you, Tommy

How hard was that.

You still get a Herr Godwin though. You should avoid that.

On Jan 3, 9:48 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well if you agree with me then you are not misguided, unless I am
> wrong, which is occasional but unusual.
>
> Right On!
>
> On 1/3/11, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Uhm Tommy.  I agree with you.
>
> > You sure I'm misguided?
>
> > On Jan 3, 9:35 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Greg-
>
> >> You are quite misinformed and misguided about pedophelia, I see. Your
> >> Reich wing statistics are incorrect.
> >> 99 percent of Pedophiles are heterosexual. About 90- 92 Percent of the
> >> population is heterosexual.
>
> >> Please read this in it's entirety and then report back to me:
>
> >>http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
>
> >> A snippet:
>
> >> Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as
> >> representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For
> >> example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian
> >> babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often
> >> lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.
> >> In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat
> >> to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully
> >> to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay
> >> discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and
> >> warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could
> >> sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic
> >> references are on a different web page]
>
> >> In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay
> >> people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates
> >> about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and
> >> scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's
> >> resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay
> >> activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this
> >> canard.
>
> >> The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual
> >> orientation is important because many child molesters don't really
> >> have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the
> >> capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men
> >> or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys,
> >> girls, or children of both sexes.
>
> >> Statistics and Conclusion:
>
> >> Freund et al. (1989). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age
> >> preference. Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117.
> >> This article is discussed above in the "Other Approaches" section. As
> >> the FRC concedes, it contradicts their argument. The abstract
> >> summarizes the authors' conclusion: "Findings indicate that homosexual
> >> males who preferred mature partners responded no more to male children
> >> than heterosexual males who preferred mature partners responded to
> >> female children."
>
> >> Silverthorne & Quinsey. (2000). Sexual partner age preferences of
> >> homosexual and heterosexual men and women. Archives of Sexual
> >> Behavior, 29, 67-76.
> >> The FRC cites this study to challenge the Freund et al. data (see the
> >> previous paper above). However, the methodologies were quite
> >> different. Freund and his colleagues used a sample that included sex
> >> offenders and they assessed sexual arousal with a physiological
> >> measure similar to that described below for the 1988 Marshall et al.
> >> study. Silverthorne and Quinsey used a sample of community volunteers
> >> who were asked to view pictures of human faces and use a 7-point scale
> >> to rate their sexual attractiveness. The apparent ages of the people
> >> portrayed in the pictures was originally estimated by Dr. Silverthorne
> >> to range from 15 to 50. However, a group of independent raters
> >> perceived the male faces to range in age from 18 to 58, and the female
> >> faces to range from 19 to 60.
>
> >> The article doesn't report the data in great detail (e.g., average
> >> ratings are depicted only in a graphic; the actual numbers aren't
> >> reported) and the authors provide contradictory information about the
> >> rating scale (they describe it as a 7-point scale but also say it
> >> ranged from 0 to 7, which constitutes an 8-point scale). In either
> >> case, it appears that none of the pictures was rated as "very sexually
> >> attractive" (a rating of 7). Rather, the highest average ratings were
> >> approximately 5.
>
> >> On average, gay men rated the 18-year old male faces the most
> >> attractive (average rating = about 5), with attractiveness ratings
> >> declining steadily for older faces. They rated the 58-year old male
> >> faces 2, on average. By contrast, heterosexual men rated the 25-year
> >> old female faces the most attractive (about 5), with the 18- and
> >> 28-year old female faces rated lower (between 2 and 3) and the 60-year
> >> old female faces rated the least attractive (about 1).
>
> >> A serious problem with this study is that the researchers didn't
> >> control for the possibility that some of the faces pictured in the
> >> photos might simply have been more or less physically attractive than
> >> the others, independent of their age or gender. The researchers
> >> explicitly acknowledged this shortcoming, speculating that the women's
> >> faces in the 25-year old group might have been more attractive than
> >> women's faces in the other age groups. But they didn't address the
> >> possibility that the attractiveness of the male and female faces may
> >> not have been comparable.
>
> >> This issue could have been addressed in various ways. For example,
> >> prior to collecting data, the researchers could have started with a
> >> large number of photographs and asked a group of independent raters to
> >> evaluate the general physical attractiveness of the face in each
> >> photo; these ratings could have been used to select photos for the
> >> experiment that were equivalent in attractiveness. Getting independent
> >> ratings of experimental stimuli in this way is a common procedure in
> >> social psychological research.
>
> >> Thus, even if one accepts the questionable assumption that this study
> >> is relevant, it doesn't support the FRC's contention that gay men are
> >> more likely than heterosexual men to be child molesters for several
> >> reasons:
>
> >> the researchers failed to control for the varying attractiveness of
> >> the different photos;
> >> all of the faces portrayed in the photos were perceived to be at least 18;
> >> and
> >> the study merely assessed judgments of sexual attractiveness rather
> >> than the research participants' sexual arousal.
>
> >> Blanchard et al. (2000). Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation
> >> in pedophiles. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 29, 463-478.
> >> This study categorized convicted sex offenders according to whether
> >> they molested or reported sexual attraction to boys only, girls only,
> >> or both boys and girls. These groups were labeled, respectively,
> >> homosexual pedophiles, heterosexual pedophiles, and bisexual
> >> pedophiles. This classification referred to their attractions to
> >> children. Adult sexual orientation (or even whether the men had an
> >> adult sexual orientation) wasn't assessed.
>
> >> Elliott et al. (1995). Child sexual abuse prevention: What offenders
> >> tell us. Child Abuse & Neglect, 19, 579-594.
> >> In this study, child sex offenders were interviewed. Their sexual
> >> orientation (gay, heterosexual, bisexual) wasn't assessed. The authors
> >> drew from their findings to suggest strategies for how parents and
> >> children can prevent sexual victimization. It is noteworthy that none
> >> of those strategies involved avoiding gay men.
>
> >> Jenny et al. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by
> >> homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94, 41-44.
> >> This study, described above in the section on "Other Approaches,"
> >> contradicts the FRC's argument. The FRC faults the study because the
> >> researchers didn't directly interview perpetrators but instead relied
> >> on the victims' medical charts for information about the offender's
> >> sexual orientation. However, other studies cited favorably by the FRC
> >> (and summarized in this section) similarly relied on chart data
> >> (Erickson et al., 1988) or did not directly assess the sexual
> >> orientation of perpetrators (Blanchard et al. 2000; Elliott et al.
> >> 1995; Marshall et al., 1988). Thus, the FRC apparently considers this
> >> method a weakness only when it leads to results they dislike.
>
> >> Marshall et al. (1988). Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual
> >> preference. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 26, 383-391.
> >> In this study, the researchers compared 21 men who had sexually
> >> molested a male under 16 years (and at least 5 years younger than
> >> themselves) to 18 unemployed men who were not known to have molested a
> >> child. Over a series of sessions, each man watched color slides of
> >> nude males and females of various ages and listened to audiotaped
> >> descriptions of both coercive and consensual sexual interactions
> >> between a man and a boy. During the sessions, each man sat in a
> >> private booth, where he was instructed to lower his trousers and
> >> underwear and attach a rubber tube to his penis. The tube detected any
> >> changes in penis circumference, with increases interpreted as
> >> indicating sexual arousal.
>
> >> The FRC cites this study as showing that "a homosexual and a
> >> heterosexual subgroup can be delineated among these offenders." This
> >> is true but hardly relevant to their claims.
>
> >> The researchers categorized 7 offenders who were more aroused overall
> >> by the male nudes than the female nudes as the homosexual subgroup.
> >> They categorized 14 offenders who were more aroused overall by the
> >> female nudes as the heterosexual subgroup. The offenders were not
> >> asked their sexual orientation (gay, straight, bisexual) and the paper
> >> does not report any information about the nature of the offenders'
> >> adult sexual relationships, or even if they had any such
> >> relationships.
>
> >> Bickley & Beech. (2001). Classifying child abusers: Its relevance to
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Something to keep in mind about that California High Speed Train

Beldar said...

The linked NYT article asserts that the magic train has "the promise of
creating tens — even hundreds — of thousands of jobs."

If so, then according to the latest statewide figures from the federal
Bureau of Labor Statistics, the train will provide California with more
jobs than are currently available to everyone employed in California's
"Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Occupations" combined.

More than all of the "Truck Drivers, Light or Delivery Services," and
more than all of the "Truck Drivers, Heavy and Tractor-Trailer" --
indeed, almost as many as both of those categories combined. ¡Este tren
es muy potente y mágico!

It will create more jobs than all of California presently has "Customer
Service Representatives," and more than all of its "Bookkeeping,
Accounting, and Auditing Clerks."

The magic train will create more than twice as many jobs as California
currently has carpenters. In fact, on a permanent basis, it will provide
almost one-third as many jobs as presently exist in the entire state's
entire construction industry. We know this to be true, because we read
it in the nation's Newspaper of Record.

The magic train will create seven new jobs for every lawyer who
currently works in California, if we believe the NYT. And you can't
swing a dead cat in California without hitting one lawyer (and another
offering to defend you against his lawsuit).

What's California world-famous for? Hollywood. Well, this train will be
so magic that it will create almost as many new jobs as are currently
employed in all of California's "Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports,
and Media Occupations" put together.

1/2/11 10:25 PM

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Re: From Vice President Biden: We want to say thank you, Tommy

Well if you agree with me then you are not misguided, unless I am
wrong, which is occasional but unusual.

Right On!

On 1/3/11, GregfromBoston <greg.vincent@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Uhm Tommy. I agree with you.
>
> You sure I'm misguided?
>
> On Jan 3, 9:35 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Greg-
>>
>> You are quite misinformed and misguided about pedophelia, I see. Your
>> Reich wing statistics are incorrect.
>> 99 percent of Pedophiles are heterosexual. About 90- 92 Percent of the
>> population is heterosexual.
>>
>> Please read this in it's entirety and then report back to me:
>>
>> http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
>>
>> A snippet:
>>
>> Members of disliked minority groups are often stereotyped as
>> representing a danger to the majority's most vulnerable members. For
>> example, Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian
>> babies in ritual sacrifices. Black men in the United States were often
>> lynched after being falsely accused of raping White women.
>> In a similar fashion, gay people have often been portrayed as a threat
>> to children. Back in 1977, when Anita Bryant campaigned successfully
>> to repeal a Dade County (FL) ordinance prohibiting anti-gay
>> discrimination, she named her organization "Save Our Children," and
>> warned that "a particularly deviant-minded [gay] teacher could
>> sexually molest children" (Bryant, 1977, p. 114). [Bibliographic
>> references are on a different web page]
>>
>> In recent years, antigay activists have routinely asserted that gay
>> people are child molesters. This argument was often made in debates
>> about the Boy Scouts of America's policy to exclude gay scouts and
>> scoutmasters. More recently, in the wake of Rep. Mark Foley's
>> resignation from the US House of Representatives in 2006, antigay
>> activists and their supporters seized on the scandal to revive this
>> canard.
>>
>> The distinction between a victim's gender and a perpetrator's sexual
>> orientation is important because many child molesters don't really
>> have an adult sexual orientation. They have never developed the
>> capacity for mature sexual relationships with other adults, either men
>> or women. Instead, their sexual attractions focus on children – boys,
>> girls, or children of both sexes.
>>
>> Statistics and Conclusion:
>>
>> Freund et al. (1989). Heterosexuality, homosexuality, and erotic age
>> preference. Journal of Sex Research, 26, 107-117.
>> This article is discussed above in the "Other Approaches" section. As
>> the FRC concedes, it contradicts their argument. The abstract
>> summarizes the authors' conclusion: "Findings indicate that homosexual
>> males who preferred mature partners responded no more to male children
>> than heterosexual males who preferred mature partners responded to
>> female children."
>>
>> Silverthorne & Quinsey. (2000). Sexual partner age preferences of
>> homosexual and heterosexual men and women. Archives of Sexual
>> Behavior, 29, 67-76.
>> The FRC cites this study to challenge the Freund et al. data (see the
>> previous paper above). However, the methodologies were quite
>> different. Freund and his colleagues used a sample that included sex
>> offenders and they assessed sexual arousal with a physiological
>> measure similar to that described below for the 1988 Marshall et al.
>> study. Silverthorne and Quinsey used a sample of community volunteers
>> who were asked to view pictures of human faces and use a 7-point scale
>> to rate their sexual attractiveness. The apparent ages of the people
>> portrayed in the pictures was originally estimated by Dr. Silverthorne
>> to range from 15 to 50. However, a group of independent raters
>> perceived the male faces to range in age from 18 to 58, and the female
>> faces to range from 19 to 60.
>>
>> The article doesn't report the data in great detail (e.g., average
>> ratings are depicted only in a graphic; the actual numbers aren't
>> reported) and the authors provide contradictory information about the
>> rating scale (they describe it as a 7-point scale but also say it
>> ranged from 0 to 7, which constitutes an 8-point scale). In either
>> case, it appears that none of the pictures was rated as "very sexually
>> attractive" (a rating of 7). Rather, the highest average ratings were
>> approximately 5.
>>
>> On average, gay men rated the 18-year old male faces the most
>> attractive (average rating = about 5), with attractiveness ratings
>> declining steadily for older faces. They rated the 58-year old male
>> faces 2, on average. By contrast, heterosexual men rated the 25-year
>> old female faces the most attractive (about 5), with the 18- and
>> 28-year old female faces rated lower (between 2 and 3) and the 60-year
>> old female faces rated the least attractive (about 1).
>>
>> A serious problem with this study is that the researchers didn't
>> control for the possibility that some of the faces pictured in the
>> photos might simply have been more or less physically attractive than
>> the others, independent of their age or gender. The researchers
>> explicitly acknowledged this shortcoming, speculating that the women's
>> faces in the 25-year old group might have been more attractive than
>> women's faces in the other age groups. But they didn't address the
>> possibility that the attractiveness of the male and female faces may
>> not have been comparable.
>>
>> This issue could have been addressed in various ways. For example,
>> prior to collecting data, the researchers could have started with a
>> large number of photographs and asked a group of independent raters to
>> evaluate the general physical attractiveness of the face in each
>> photo; these ratings could have been used to select photos for the
>> experiment that were equivalent in attractiveness. Getting independent
>> ratings of experimental stimuli in this way is a common procedure in
>> social psychological research.
>>
>> Thus, even if one accepts the questionable assumption that this study
>> is relevant, it doesn't support the FRC's contention that gay men are
>> more likely than heterosexual men to be child molesters for several
>> reasons:
>>
>> the researchers failed to control for the varying attractiveness of
>> the different photos;
>> all of the faces portrayed in the photos were perceived to be at least 18;
>> and
>> the study merely assessed judgments of sexual attractiveness rather
>> than the research participants' sexual arousal.
>>
>> Blanchard et al. (2000). Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation
>> in pedophiles. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 29, 463-478.
>> This study categorized convicted sex offenders according to whether
>> they molested or reported sexual attraction to boys only, girls only,
>> or both boys and girls. These groups were labeled, respectively,
>> homosexual pedophiles, heterosexual pedophiles, and bisexual
>> pedophiles. This classification referred to their attractions to
>> children. Adult sexual orientation (or even whether the men had an
>> adult sexual orientation) wasn't assessed.
>>
>> Elliott et al. (1995). Child sexual abuse prevention: What offenders
>> tell us. Child Abuse & Neglect, 19, 579-594.
>> In this study, child sex offenders were interviewed. Their sexual
>> orientation (gay, heterosexual, bisexual) wasn't assessed. The authors
>> drew from their findings to suggest strategies for how parents and
>> children can prevent sexual victimization. It is noteworthy that none
>> of those strategies involved avoiding gay men.
>>
>> Jenny et al. (1994). Are children at risk for sexual abuse by
>> homosexuals? Pediatrics, 94, 41-44.
>> This study, described above in the section on "Other Approaches,"
>> contradicts the FRC's argument. The FRC faults the study because the
>> researchers didn't directly interview perpetrators but instead relied
>> on the victims' medical charts for information about the offender's
>> sexual orientation. However, other studies cited favorably by the FRC
>> (and summarized in this section) similarly relied on chart data
>> (Erickson et al., 1988) or did not directly assess the sexual
>> orientation of perpetrators (Blanchard et al. 2000; Elliott et al.
>> 1995; Marshall et al., 1988). Thus, the FRC apparently considers this
>> method a weakness only when it leads to results they dislike.
>>
>> Marshall et al. (1988). Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual
>> preference. Behaviour Research and Therapy, 26, 383-391.
>> In this study, the researchers compared 21 men who had sexually
>> molested a male under 16 years (and at least 5 years younger than
>> themselves) to 18 unemployed men who were not known to have molested a
>> child. Over a series of sessions, each man watched color slides of
>> nude males and females of various ages and listened to audiotaped
>> descriptions of both coercive and consensual sexual interactions
>> between a man and a boy. During the sessions, each man sat in a
>> private booth, where he was instructed to lower his trousers and
>> underwear and attach a rubber tube to his penis. The tube detected any
>> changes in penis circumference, with increases interpreted as
>> indicating sexual arousal.
>>
>> The FRC cites this study as showing that "a homosexual and a
>> heterosexual subgroup can be delineated among these offenders." This
>> is true but hardly relevant to their claims.
>>
>> The researchers categorized 7 offenders who were more aroused overall
>> by the male nudes than the female nudes as the homosexual subgroup.
>> They categorized 14 offenders who were more aroused overall by the
>> female nudes as the heterosexual subgroup. The offenders were not
>> asked their sexual orientation (gay, straight, bisexual) and the paper
>> does not report any information about the nature of the offenders'
>> adult sexual relationships, or even if they had any such
>> relationships.
>>
>> Bickley & Beech. (2001). Classifying child abusers: Its relevance to
>> theory and clinical practice. International Journal Of Offender
>> Therapy And Comparative Criminology, 45, 51-69.
>> This is a literature review and theoretical paper that discusses the
>> strengths and weaknesses of various systems for classifying child
>> molesters. In citing this study, the FRC says it:
>>
>> refers to homosexual pedophiles as a "distinct group." The victims of
>> homosexual pedophiles "were more likely to be strangers, that they
>> were more likely to have engaged in paraphiliac behavior separate from
>> that involved in the offence, and that they were more likely to have
>> past convictions for sexual offences.... Other studies [showed a]
>> greater risk of reoffending than those who had offended against girls"
>> and that the "recidivism rate for male-victim offenders is
>> approximately twice that ...
>>
>> read more »
>
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--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy

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