On Jun 20, 10:01 am, Maurice Coates <coates...@gmail.com> wrote:
> O the good old Bush years when the whole world was spitting on the USA
> and thinking that the next crisis after Hitler will be the USA. You
> guys should think before you start typing on your keyboards.
>
> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 9:25 PM,
>
> <politicalforum+noreply@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> > Today's Topic Summary
>
> > Group:http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/topics
>
> > Why do the Dutch have better skimmers than the US? [6 Updates]
> > Obama stops clean up to create bigger disaster [4 Updates]
> > I Want Peace in Kyrgyzstan [1 Update]
> > Dutch skimmers on the job [6 Updates]
> > The Government Cannot Protect Us From Every Catastrophe We Face [2 Updates]
> > Obama: 'To rebuild America's economy, rebuild America' [3 Updates]
> > This one is a can't make this stuff up - the Coast Guard looks stupid here
> > [3 Updates]
>
> > Topic: Why do the Dutch have better skimmers than the US?
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 11:39AM -0700 ^
>
> > socialism?
>
> > bruce majors <bruce.maj...@gmail.com> Jun 18 02:43PM -0400 ^
>
> > sheeple eating her own patties now
>
> > are the Dutch skimmers state owned?
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 11:50AM -0700 ^
>
> > Yes.
>
> > bruce majors <bruce.maj...@gmail.com> Jun 18 02:59PM -0400 ^
>
> > poor dumb pattie
>
> > too stupid to even talk to
>
> > if the Dutch government had forced Dutch taxpayers to invest in excess
> > skimmers it just has sitting around that would instead show that socialism
> > doesn't work
>
> > if you were literate you would be able to read about the "calculation
> > debate" in the early 20th century that demonstrated that central planners
> > always make such Pharonic malinvestments as they have no market price
> > signals to guide them
>
> > as it turns out, the skimmers belong to a private company
>
> > *Royal Dutch Shell*
> > plc<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_limited_company>,
> > commonly known simply as *Shell*, is a
> > multinational<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_corporation>
> > petroleum company <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum_company> of
> > Dutch<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands>
> > and British <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom> origins. One of
> > the six "supermajors <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermajor>" (vertically
> > integrated <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical_integration> private
> > sector <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_sector> oil
> > exploration<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_exploration>
> > , natural gas <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas>, and
> > petroleum<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum> product
> > marketing companies), Shell was listed as the world's eighth largest
> > corporation for 2010 by
> > Forbes.[2]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell#cite_note-1>
> > The
> > company's headquarters are in The
> > Hague<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague>
> > , Netherlands
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands>,[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell#cite_note-Shell_Intern...>
> > with
> > its registered office at the Shell
> > Centre<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Centre>
> > inLondon <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London>, United
> > Kingdom<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom>
> > .[3]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Dutch_Shell#cite_note-Shell_Intern...>
>
> > Shell operates in over 140 countries. In the United
> > States<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States>,
> > the Shell Oil Company <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_Oil_Company>
> > subsidiary,
> > headquartered in Houston <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston>,
> > Texas<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas>,
> > is one of its largest businesses.
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 12:18PM -0700 ^
>
> > the government owns the cleanup equipment, including the skimmers now
> > being deployed in the Gulf.
>
> > bruce majors <bruce.maj...@gmail.com> Jun 18 03:22PM -0400 ^
>
> > so the Dutch state owns skimmers it forced Dutch taxpayers to pay for, even
> > though Shell owns its own, and having no use for them it offers them to
> > Obama
>
> > you seem to have provided no link to show that they are state owned
>
> > my google still shows that Shell owns skimmers, which the Dutch government
> > offered
>
> > you don't seem to be able to think abstractly or provide references
>
> > so our assessment of you is unchanged
>
> > Topic: Obama stops clean up to create bigger disaster
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:12PM -0400 ^
>
> > Define unsafe - without regard to what the congress says is unsafe.
> > BTW did you realize that the Democratic Congress passed the OSHA bills
> > back in the day. Guess who did not have to abide by them. The
> > Congress!! So the rest of us had to put up with the OSHA requirements
> > but those who worked for Congress did not. Guess the Congress didn't
> > believe their own laws then. I would bet the same is true now. You
> > can bet that if a coast guard vessel is in trouble and all the CG ships
> > do not have the required safety equipment, the CG still goes out.
> > They shouldn't because it would not be safe for them.\
>
> > Boy are you ever easy!!
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:07AM -0700 ^
>
> > Define unsafe
> > ----------
> > the ships were inspected and grounded because they did not have the
> > proper fire-fighting and life-saving equipment. They were therefore,
> > unsafe.
>
> > frankg <fran...@gmail.com> Jun 18 12:05PM -0700 ^
>
> > This is utter nonsense. So if my house is on fire but my fire
> > extinguisher doesn't have a proper regulator, I should not use it and
> > allow the house to burn down? The barges should have been allowed to
> > continue to do their thing while inspections and/or corrections were
> > made in parallel.
>
> > This is just as foolish as the Obama Administration refusing the offer
> > from the Dutch to bring in their skimmers because the skimmers are not
> > 100% efficient at removing the oil from the water and so could return
> > water to the gulf that still contains a tiny amount of oil.
>
> > If all of these systems had been put in place immediately the
> > environmental disaster would be but a fraction of what we currently
> > have. Attempting to defend the USCG or EPA for these decisions is
> > impossible. To bad we don't still have Bush in office -- at least then
> > no one would be attempting to smooth all this mismanagement over as
> > acceptable and proper.
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 12:20PM -0700 ^
>
> > This is utter nonsense. So if my house is on fire but my fire
> > extinguisher doesn't have a proper regulator, I should not use it and
> > allow the house to burn down
> > ----------
> > if it is an ongoing process, and one of the firetrucks could cause a
> > life to be lost because of safety considerations, it would be taken
> > out of service until it was safe. Life is more important than
> > property.
>
> > Topic: I Want Peace in Kyrgyzstan
>
> > bruce majors <bruce.maj...@gmail.com> Jun 18 02:44PM -0400 ^
>
> > [image: dove kyrgyz]
>
> > During this past month, ethnic violence between Uzbeks and Kyrgyz has
> > shook the small country of Kyrgyzstan in central Asia, resulting in over 200
> > dead and 120,000 displaced. Throughout the chaos Kyrgyz libertarians led a
> > series of coordinated voluntary efforts to provide emergency aid to the
> > victims of the vicious attacks and to promote peace throughout the nation
> > and the region. Atlas's Tom Palmer has been in regular touch with our
> > friends there, and on Tuesday evening he talked to Central Asian Free Market
> > Institute<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT_o3p...>
> > (CAFMI)
> > Director Mirsulzhan Namazaliev by Skype, as he was interrupted by a stream
> > of volunteers working late into the night in the CAFMI offices. He made
> > their resolution clear:
>
> > *"We are helping those who are suffering, but we are doing more. For me
> > personally this is not only a fight for life. It is a fight for freedom.
> > We don't want to be ruled by any authoritarian Central Asian or Russian
> > regimes that would exploit this awful violence. The violence we are
> > suffering is a provocation designed to generate chaos and to overturn the
> > chance for a constitutional regime. We will not stand for it. We want
> > peace, we want freedom, and we want a lawful government."*
>
> > [image: Gulmira Aidaralieva]Palmer was in Kyrgyzstan just last month to work
> > with CAFMI and with the new acting minister of economic development, Emil
> > Umetaliev, a founding member of CAFMI's board of directors. The CAFMI team
> > includes two Atlas Think Tank
> > MBA<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT93K4...>graduates
> > - co-founder and director, Mirsulzhan Namazaliev, and operations
> > manager Gulmira Aidaralieva. There was guarded optimism about the country's
> > future, after the corrupt and increasingly authoritarian regime of Kurmanbek
> > Bakiyev was ousted in an uprising after he tried to suppress demonstrations
> > with deadly force. But there was also fear of Bakiyev's machinations,
> > especially after the revelation of a recorded cell phone conversation
> > between his son, Maksim, and his brother Janybek (who had given the orders
> > to shoot protesters in April), in which they clearly plot violence to derail
> > a new constitutional process and regain power, even proposing how many
> > "fighters" to hire, arming them with iron bars and other implements, and how
> > much to pay them to launch attacks. The recording was chilling. And with the
> > money they looted from the country, they found the thugs to launch attacks
> > on both Uzbek and Kyrgyz villages, in order to spark revenge attacks. Their
> > plans bore fruit this month, as hundreds were murdered, homes and businesses
> > were burned, and 120,000 people were made refugees.
>
> > As Namazaliev remarked, "We will not stand for it."
>
> > [image: cafmi web]CAFMI's staff and volunteers are almost all under the age
> > of 25. Few have backgrounds in defense or security. But they immediately put
> > the talents they do have to work. CAFMI volunteers worked with others to
> > solicit, gather, and deliver humanitarian assistance for the thousands of
> > people - mainly mothers and children - who had been driven from their homes,
> > and to create a message of communal peace - of Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Russians,
> > Uighurs, Tajiks and others who were standing together for peace and against
> > murder and hatred. They called together teams of computer experts,
> > technological wizards, social networkers, and activists to build an umbrella
> > coalition:
>
> > "I Want Peace in Kyrgyzstan" -"Мен Қирғизистонда тинчлик бўлишини
> > истайман!" in Uzbek, "Мен Кыргызстанга тынчтыкты каалайм!" in Kyrgyz, and "Я
> > хочу мира в Кыргызстане!" in Russian.
>
> > *The "I Want Peace in Kyrgyzstan" campaign has five coordinated elements:*
>
> > 1. Use cell phones, databases, and the internet to organize volunteers
> > effectively and to create and disseminate maps (using Google Maps and other
> > techniques) to guide deliveries of aid to victims and to help people to
> > avoid areas in turmoil, burning buildings, and road blocks and ambushes set
> > up by thugs.
>
> > 2. Create a modern campaign for peace in three languages (Kyrygz, Uzbek, and
> > Russian) - with a brand, a logo, street graffiti, slogans, t-shirts,
> > stickers, leaflets, hand-written letters from children, radio interviews and
> > public announcements, text messages, and other means to calm tensions and
> > promote peace. Representatives of the various ethnic groups appear together
> > to pledge peace and to build the rule of law and freedom together.
>
> > 3. Combat disinformation and misinformation that might fuel ethnic hatred
> > and violence, and respond rapidly to malicious rumors and hate campaigns
> > before they bear their evil fruit.
>
> > 4. Contain the spread of reprisals and hatred throughout Central Asia, by
> > providing reliable information to media, helping to combat ethnic smears and
> > suppress revenge attacks against minorities in other countries, and quickly
> > rebutting calls in nearby countries for military intervention into
> > Kyrgyzstan, which carries the very real danger of regional war.
>
> > 5. Create a "Peace Room" (not a "War Room") in CAFMI's Bishkek offices to be
> > open 24 hours a day to coordinate the collection and dissemination of
> > information. Volunteers in the Peace Room utilize cell phones, social
> > networking sites, twitter, text messages, phone trees, and monitor mass
> > media constantly. The CAFMI office is now fully staffed with volunteers and
> > working around the clock.
>
> > The young volunteers and staff of CAFMI are donating their time, risking
> > their lives, and contributing their scarce resources, in a country with a
> > per-capita income of about $2,100. If you'd like to stand with a group of
> > very brave, very determined, and very committed libertarians you can send a
> > tax-deductible donation to the Central Asian Free Market Institute (CAFMI)
> > through
> > Atlas<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT9aUC...>,
> > which has provided support to CAFMI. Please write to
> > Erin.Gr...@AtlasNetwork.org <erin.gr...@atlasnetwork.org> and 100% of your
> > donation will be dedicated to CAFMI's work in Central Asia. Donations of
> > all sizes are welcome.
>
> > It would be a decision you would not regret. (You can follow CAFMI's work
> > on its Facebook page
> > <http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT_nlP...>and
> > Namazaliev writes in Russian and in English on
> > NewEurasia.net<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT-3ep...>,
> > Twitter<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT9B5m...>,
> > and other media. He covered the April uprising against Bakiyev's
> > authoritarian regime in *The
> > Independent*<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT8QUb...>
> > and
> > was quoted frequently by
> > CNN<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT8YtR...>and
> > many other news organizations. You can also read more about CAFMI's
> > work on the Atlas
> > website<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1103490224192&s=8345&e=001EORrO3RIzT-0k_...>
> > .)
>
> > Your support can make a huge difference in Kyrgyzstan's transition to a
> > peaceful and free country.
> > [image: Safe
> > Unsubscribe]<http://visitor.constantcontact.com/d.jsp?v=001Qo1SzxA2oRQxn2EHrIlLnae...>
> > This email was sent to bruce.maj...@gmail.com by luke.se...@atlasnetwork.org
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> > | 20005
>
> > Topic: Dutch skimmers on the job
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:15PM -0400 ^
>
> > And if Zero had not fluffed them off when they first offered weeks ago
> > they would have been here all this time. Thank you, Zero. What a
> > guy!! My Hero!! or maybe not.
>
> > Has your Messiah yet told us why he turned down the 13 countries who
> > offered to help out on this mess? Just think. If he had accepted
> > their help then we may not have had all this problem. But he is so
> > intelligent - or at least that is what we are told. Unfortunately he
> > keeps showing us how false that is. You betcha!!
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:08AM -0700 ^
>
> > Sounds like "a surge" doesn't it?
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:34PM -0400 ^
>
> > Sounds like a fuckup by the administration but we should be used to
> > that. That is the MO of this administration.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:29AM -0700 ^
>
> > Would you rather we sent them back?
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 02:23PM -0400 ^
>
> > I would rather he had accepted the assistance back when they would have
> > maybe stopped the mess before it got this bad but Bambi was not smart
> > enough to do that.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 11:37AM -0700 ^
>
> > skimmers won't plug the leak or "stop this mess." But they will help
> > in the clean up.
>
> > Topic: The Government Cannot Protect Us From Every Catastrophe We Face
>
> > "M. Johnson" <micha...@america.net> Jun 18 01:36PM -0400 ^
>
> > So, the government that foolishly limited BP's maximum liability, the
> > government that claimed it knew where best to drill, the government that
> > actually stopped locals from protecting their own shoreline that would be
> > that same government that bankrupted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,
> > the Post Office, Amtrak and virtually everything it has managed now wants to
> > decide who gets BP's cash.
>
> > The Government Cannot Protect Us From Every Catastrophe We Face
>
> > Wednesday, June 16, 2010
>
> > By Judge Andrew Napolitano
>
> > Tuesday night, in an Oval Office speech to the nation, President Obama took
> > the gloves off.
>
> > He lashed out at BP over the monumental oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. He
> > vowed that he will make BP pay for all the long and short-term damage it
> > caused. He argued that the battle against this now nearly two-month-old
> > raging gusher of oil is tantamount to a war. And he asked the country to
> > allow him and the Congress to regulate all businesses and private homes in
> > the name of going green.
>
> > For most Americans, it was the first time they saw him angry although a
> > controlled anger from the no-drama-Obama, as his own campaign staff labeled
> > him two years ago. But will the president's feigned anger get the oil well
> > plugged? Will it get cash into the hands of those truly harmed? Will it
> > prevent future disasters?
>
> > No, no and no.
>
> > Here are the facts: After the Exxon Valdez disaster off Alaska in 1989 had
> > been cleaned up and nearly paid for by Exxon, the oil companies lobbied the
> > Congress for liability limits maximum amounts that they could be held to pay
> > for in the event of a disaster.
>
> > A Republican Congress and President Clinton together made it the law that
> > oil companies would be limited to pay $75 million for cleanups and the
> > taxpayers that would be you would pay the rest. In return, the feds would be
> > able to tell the oil companies where to drill.
>
> > In the case of BP, it asked the state of Louisiana if it could drill in 500
> > feet of water and Louisiana said it could. The federal government vetoed
> > that and told BP could only drill in 5,000 feet of water.
>
> > Never mind that no oil company had ever cleaned up a broken well at that
> > depth and never mind that the feds had never monitored a broken well at that
> > depth and never mind that BP only needed to set aside $75 million in case
> > something went wrong. The feds trumped BP's engineers and the feds trumped
> > the wishes of the folks who live along the Gulf Coast and the feds decided
> > where this oil well would be drilled.
>
> > Disaster struck. The feds did nothing. Oil gushed out in an amount that is
> > so great as to be immeasurable. Political pressure grew.
>
> > The president eventually panicked because he believes that his federal
> > government can right every wrong, regulate every activity and protect us
> > from every catastrophe. He is wrong. Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal was
> > ready to build barriers to protect his state's coastline and the feds said
> > no.
>
> > The president even invoked powers that allow him to supervise the cleanup
> > using BP personnel and equipment. And the oil still gushes. Last week, the
> > president stopped all oil drilling in the Gulf putting thousands out of
> > work. Last night he demanded billions from BP so his team could decide who
> > gets it and today a terrified BP gave him all the cash he asked for.
>
> > So, the government that foolishly limited BP's maximum liability, the
> > government that claimed it knew where best to drill, the government that
> > actually stopped locals from protecting their own shoreline that would be
> > that same government that bankrupted Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid,
> > the Post Office, Amtrak and virtually everything it has managed now wants to
> > decide who gets BP's cash.
>
> > The last time this government had this much private cash to give away,
> > during the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies, it disregarded well-settled law and
> > gave it to the labor unions. To whom will it give this cash the innocent
> > injured or its political friends?
>
> > The government cannot protect us from every catastrophe, especially ones its
> > rules have facilitated. How about this: That government is best which
> > governs least.
>
> > The people have a right to a government that obeys the laws of economics,
> > the laws of physics and the Constitution. Let private enterprise do what it
> > does best and keep politics out of the way.
>
> > If the Constitution was written to keep the government off the people's
> > backs, it is time for the feds to get off.
>
> >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,594783,00.html
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:47AM -0700 ^
>
> > bp - so mistreated. What did they do, anyway? Spill a little oil? poor
> > babies.
>
> > Topic: Obama: 'To rebuild America's economy, rebuild America'
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:27PM -0400 ^
>
> > Unfortunately he has done nothing but invest unwisely. What has he
> > accomplished thus far. His jobs program - bit fail. His stimulus -
> > big fail. His tax program - big fail. His cash for clunkers - big
> > fail. His cash for old appliances - big fail. His border protection
> > program - big fail - in fact AZ had to pass their own law because Zero's
> > activities were so disastrous. His healthcare - he had to bribe
> > senators to get the damned thing passed and we already know that people
> > are going to lose their insurance because of it - and doctors are
> > retiring and moving into other professions because of the healthcare
> > program. His savings on the budget is not working - we have trillions
> > more debt because of his stupid additional entitlements programs. He is
> > cutting Medicare which people have been paying for for 40+ years (I have
> > paid in since it started and I have paid max social security for 45
> > years and for 20 of them I paid double - employer and employee both) and
> > he is cutting that as well. Now he wants to cut military pay and
> > military health plans. We have a federal government that claimed that
> > the returning military were terrorists. He has so far insulted every
> > close friendly country we have and made nice to all our enemies. He
> > finds somewhere else to be whenever there is a problem. Remember the
> > ice storms last winter? Zero made campaign stops in all the states
> > around the ones who lost power because of the ice storms but he never
> > stopped in those states. He still has not shown up in Nashville after
> > the flooding there.
>
> > Boy, did you ever support a real loser there. Has he done anything
> > right yet???? Love how he picks his cabinet and administration
> > officials. Failed to pay your taxes? No problem. Bribe candidates
> > not to run for office. Been there and done that. Shame the candidates
> > told us about it.
>
> > Oil spill and ecological disaster? Sorry, got to go to a fund raiser
> > across the country instead and then we got a Beatle coming to the White
> > House. Maybe I can work the disaster in after that. We'll see what
> > comes up.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:30PM -0400 ^
>
> > I would like to see what jobs he created. Is he including the census
> > jobs in that. Are they government jobs? If so, then they are not an
> > asset for the country; they are a liability that has to come out of tax
> > funds. That should be a net loss. And if you depend on Joe Biden to
> > tell you about job savings and creations, then for sure I would want to
> > double check those numbers. Plugs ain't the brightest guy in town.
>
> > BTW they told us already they had saved that many jobs and it turned out
> > that when they did that there was still a net loss of jobs. Bet the
> > same is true with this bunch of hooey.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:29AM -0700 ^
>
> > Why do you hate America?
>
> > Topic: This one is a can't make this stuff up - the Coast Guard looks
> > stupid here
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:08PM -0400 ^
>
> > I bet you put on your helmet and elbow pads and knee pads and goggles to
> > walk to the store.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> Jun 18 01:09PM -0400 ^
>
> > Who said they were not safe. They may not have had all the equipment
> > the CG wanted them to have but that has nothing to do with whether they
> > are safe or not.
>
> > euwe wrote:
>
> > euwe <machgie...@gmail.com> Jun 18 10:06AM -0700 ^
>
> > Who said they were not safe.
> > ------------
> > The coast guard. The ships were inspected and grounded "because they
> > did not have the proper fire-fighting and life-saving equipment."
>
> > --
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