Re: Reply to Keith in Tampa on Gays

Keith-

Your hatred, lies, and false smear are again evident in these false statements.

I never once said that SPLC was reputable, I simply said that is not a
"Hate Organization" as you falsely stated.

I did not post any "missive full of lies." That is another false lie.

I am most certainly not out of step with reality, that is false
slander, a lie, an insult, and a smear.

I am not a "Marxist", that is yet another slanderous false lie, and a
personal smear.

I am not a "Anti-American", that is yet another slanderous false lie,
and a personal smear.

Mocking me, "making your points", and continuing to spew forth your
homophobic lies and personal attacks is nothing to give thanks for.

You, Keith, should be deeply ashamed of your hate, lies, smear,
personal attacks, and your highly offensive vicious behavior.

On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tom,
>
> I know that for you to think that the Southern Poverty Law Center is
> somehow reputable, and that missive full of lies that you posted yesterday,
> is somehow accurate or correct, demonstrates just how out of step you are
> with reality, the American people, and in general, America itself.
>
> You are a Marxist, Anti-American and pretty much out of step with reality.
> I thank you for continuing to post to this group, as it is easy for me to
> make my points, and mock you and your militant Anti-American positions that
> you represent!
>
> Again, thanks!!
>
> Keith
>
> On Sun, Dec 12, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Keith-
>>
>> Thank you for taking the bait which I presented to you below.
>>
>> 1- Lie. The Southern Poverty Law Center is NOT a hate group.
>>
>> and 2- Lie. The ten lies Conservatives and Fundies spew out about
>> homosexuality, cited below, are indeed lies.
>>
>> Here is Proof positive that Kieth is a liar, hater, misguided, highly
>> homophobic, and purveyor of false Reich wing smear.
>> Proof, as he reqested himself.
>>
>> Being gay is not a choice or a lifestyle, is perfectly normal in the
>> entire animal kingdom, and most gays are normal, ordinary looking
>> people. Many gays are chaste and celebate. Most gays are not
>> flamboyant, unlike many heterosexuals who flaunt their sexuality and
>> romantic encounters and desires at every turn, holding hands, kissing,
>> and worse in public. Gays make excellent parents, far bettter than
>> many dysfunctional heterosexual parents. Most pedophiles are
>> heterosexual. Your homophobic claims are ALL hateful lies.
>>
>> On 12/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Two points.
>> >
>> > First, the Southern Poverty Law Center is a hate group. A hate group,
>> that
>> > labels other Americans with despicable tags and ostentatious
>> > misrepresentations.
>> >
>> > Second, most if not all of the purpoted ten lies are prevaricate and
>> taken
>> > out of context. Some of the purported "lies" are in fact quite
>> accurate.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Ten Lies about the GLBT Community Told by Conservative Hate
>> >> Groups: a Straight Christian Perspective
>> >> by Kathy on 29. Nov, 2010 in MUST READS, Please Be Nicer, Uncategorized
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As a follower of Jesus who takes very seriously the commands to love,
>> >> be merciful and "spend" myself on justice, I've struggled for a week
>> >> with this post about the designation of the Family Research Council
>> >> (FRC) as a Hate Group. I am a swirl of anger and shame and relief. I
>> >> have waited over a week to write and post this so that I could check
>> >> myself and make sure it's the Jesus-kind of anger motivating me. By
>> >> speaking out, I will be going directly against what appears to be
>> >> good, sound and sacred. So be it. Deceit and hatred wrapped in a
>> >> lovely robe and carrying a Holy Text is a horrible, blasphemous
>> >> offense.
>> >>
>> >> In December 2010, the Family Research Council (FRC) was placed on
>> >> Southern Poverty Law Center's (SPLC) list of Hate Groups. In amongst
>> >> 932 designated active hate groups in the United States which include:
>> >> neo-Nazis, Ku Klux Klan, White Supremacists, White Nationalists, Black
>> >> Separatists, Racist Skinheads, Holocaust Deniers, Neo-Confederates,
>> >> Anti-Immigrationists and Anti-Gay groups, there is listed the Family
>> >> Research Council.
>> >>
>> >> Eighteen of SPLC's Hate Groups are anti-gay. For absolute clarity,
>> >> deeming homosexuality as "unbiblical" will not earn an organization a
>> >> spot on the Hate Groups list. But, continuous dissemination of known
>> >> falsehoods and the repeated, groundless demonizing of gay, lesbian,
>> >> bisexual and transgender (GLBT) people will score a group an uncoveted
>> >> position on the list.
>> >>
>> >> I listened to Tony Perkins, President of FRC, on Fox and Friends as he
>> >> responded to the dishonor announced last week on being place on the
>> >> SPLC's Hate Groups list. I talked to my computer screen and boiled at
>> >> his smiling, what-me? attitude. No, Mr. Perkins, FRC is not on the
>> >> list because you are a conservative group. Your actions have placed
>> >> you there. No, Mr. Perkins, the left is not trying to shut down the
>> >> debate or take away your freedom of religion. GLBT people are
>> >> fighting for what the mascot-version-God aside you says they
>> >> deserve—equality. Religious straight conservatives (and I am one)
>> >> will still be able to get married, have children, serve in the
>> >> military and attend houses of worship of their choice. No one wants
>> >> to strip us of any of those rights; they just want the same rights,
>> >> not special rights, not more rights, not gay rights—the same rights.
>> >> Mr. Perkins, you drag God into your battle as an accomplice and, to
>> >> me, that is even more despicable than your messages. You use God as
>> >> your validation, saying you are fighting to protect His
>> >> Judeo-Christian values. You and FRC deserve to be called dangerous
>> >> and hateful; you and FRC have earned it.
>> >>
>> >> FRC, regrettably, is not the only anti-gay group on the SPLC Hate
>> >> List. They are joined, most notably, by: Abiding Truth, run by Scott
>> >> Lively (outlined in a post "On Scott Lively and the "Kill the Gays
>> >> Bill" (in) Fame" that I wrote after a long personal series of
>> >> exchanges with him), American Family Association (AFA), Concerned
>> >> Women for America (CWA) and National Organization for Marriage (NOM).
>> >> All are dispensers of false accusations, myths and lies about GLBT
>> >> people. I have spent over five years as an active advocate/friend of
>> >> the GLBT community, especially the gay/trans Christians and, over
>> >> twenty five years as a devout follower of Jesus. I have feet in both
>> >> the conservative Christian world and the GLBT world. I am in a unique
>> >> position to assess the controversy. The lies about gay people really
>> >> hurt in a deep spot in me. Lies that substantiate the "right" to
>> >> discriminate.
>> >>
>> >> Here are the top ten myths and lies presented by FRC, CWA, AFA and
>> >> NOM, (I won't even touch Scott Lively's ramblings here. Read the
>> >> blogpost . He is widely agreed to be in the same special grouping with
>> >> the Westboro Baptist Church). I follow each lie with a short
>> >> commentary and link to where I have written about that topic in the
>> >> past.
>> >>
>> >> 1. People make a choice to be gay. If you know any/many GLBT people
>> >> and you have listened to them, you would not entertain this statement
>> >> as true. This is a pivotal statement used by anti-gay groups all
>> >> the time. It is simple and it is powerful. Here is why. If being
>> >> GLBT is a choice, then it is a conduct. Conduct is not protected by
>> >> law. But, a class of people, a status of people, is protected by law.
>> >> If these conservative groups can get us to believe that being GLBT is
>> >> a choice, then they can hope to withhold civil rights from gay/trans
>> >> people. Again, conduct is not protected but classes of people are
>> >> protected.
>> >>
>> >> This house of cards and lies are starting to tumble down however. In
>> >> the Supreme Court, a ruling was released on June 28, 2010 for
>> >> Christian Legal Society(CLS) at University of California, Hastings
>> >> School of Law v Martinez. CLS contented that they were discriminating
>> >> against a behavior, the homosexuality of a perspective member, when
>> >> they denied admission to the group. We are all clear that state money
>> >> and property cannot be used to discriminate against a class of people,
>> >> but CLS said this was about behavior. In siding with Martinez, the
>> >> Supreme Court decision called GLBT people a "class"; this is huge,
>> >> huge. The Supreme Court has now designated GLBT people as a class, not
>> >> a behavior, not a conduct. A group of people.
>> >>
>> >> Forget all the myths and bigotry some groups will use to discriminate
>> >> against GLBT people, the Supreme Court (and every recognized American
>> >> medical, counseling and psychiatric group) understands that
>> >> homosexuality/transgenderness is not a choice. They are a class or
>> >> status of people. With that designation, equality will come.
>> >>
>> >> I find it exceedingly sad that the State is leading the charge for
>> >> social justice when God told His people over 2,700 years ago in the
>> >> book of Isaiah to "spend" themselves on justice issues. (Isaiah 58:
>> >> 6-12) The courts are now leading the way to end this inequality. It
>> >> should have been Christians churches. We have been here before on the
>> >> issues of equality for women and Black Americans. God help us; Your
>> >> people betrayed a mandate and used Your name to validate
>> >> discrimination.
>> >>
>> >> 2. People become homosexual because they were sexually abused as
>> >> children or had distant father/over bearing mother or some variation
>> >> on bad parenting. GLBT children are no more abused or subject to poor
>> >> role models than heterosexual children. Fifteen to twenty five percent
>> >> of all girls were sexually abused and seven to fifteen percent of all
>> >> boys. There is no scientific evidence to link abuse and orientation.
>> >> None. This myth has burdened parents of GLBT children with a guilt and
>> >> shame that they somehow caused their children's orientation. Shame
>> >> and blame. And, a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 3. Sexual orientation can be changed. Reparative therapy has been
>> >> rejected by all the established and reputable American medical,
>> >> psychological, psychiatric and professional counseling organizations.
>> >> The overwhelming majority of people that have "changed" have: chosen
>> >> to be celibate, were bisexual and not exclusively homosexual, or opt
>> >> to live a "straight" life to adhere to strong religious and social
>> >> pressures. ( Read my post about Sexual Orientation . ) Even the leader
>> >> of the largest reparative therapy group in the world, Exodus, said
>> >> just this week that he still is attracted to men. This is my personal
>> >> belief, I would say, that if it were not for his paycheck, status and
>> >> books, he would be more truthful. I have two close friends who were
>> >> leaders/founders of Exodus and they are transparent in telling the
>> >> stories of the lies and lack of integrity in the Exodus- type message.
>> >>
>> >> I have personally interviewed both of them (Michael Bussee and Darlene
>> >> Bogle ) and this reparative sex industry is a sham and a money
>> >> machine. It does not work. I do not know one, not one person who has
>> >> changed sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual. Not one.
>> >> Have there been cases where some sexual abuse caused a skewed sexual
>> >> view that was corrected? Sure. I would place that in the less than 1%
>> >> realm. Go to Beyond Ex-Gay and Box Turtle Bulletin for reparative
>> >> therapy stories. The leaders of ex-gay ministries will never say you
>> >> can change orientation; they appear to say that, but listen. They
>> >> even know it is a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 4. Efforts to change someone's sexual orientation from homosexual
>> >> to heterosexual are not harmful nor unethical. Oh really? Being GLBT
>> >> is a status, not a behavior or "lifestyle" (this word drives me
>> >> batty!). Constant pressure to change the core of a person is a
>> >> violation of humanity and it is an abuse. Telling someone who is
>> >> same-sex attracted that they must change who they are to be acceptable
>> >> to family, society, God is harmful and unethical.
>> >>
>> >> Ask an alcoholic or drug addict to get clean and you will see benefit.
>> >> Ask an adulterer to stop cheating and you see benefit. Go on and on
>> >> down the list of "bad behaviors" and encourage folks to eliminate them
>> >> and you will see life and good. Then, apply this "you must change your
>> >> orientation" attitude and dictate to a GLBT person, and you will see
>> >> loneliness, depression, isolation and shame. I am sure people are
>> >> well intentioned in wanting others to change and live "the good life"
>> >> of heterosexuality. I could not change my orientation, yet, we ask
>> >> others to change theirs. For our good. For their destruction.
>> >>
>> >> 5. Homosexuals experience a higher level of psychological disorders
>> >> than do heterosexuals. Really? Reject anyone repeatedly and from all
>> >> directions and from all societal institutions and you set them up for
>> >> personal destruction. We have done an excellent job of sending out a
>> >> message of less-thanism from every corner of society to the GLBT
>> >> community–from churches, government, military and schools. Want to
>> >> decrease the shame, depression, addictions, suicidal thoughts and
>> >> loneliness imposed on GLBT people? Stop the rejection. Incredibly
>> >> simplistic. Be loving, be accepting, be a safe place. Love,
>> >> acceptance and security. That is all we each ask for. Try extending
>> >> it and watch the "psychological disorders" melt away.
>> >>
>> >> 6. Children raised by homosexuals are not as healthy as children
>> >> raised by heterosexuals and, they suffer harm. First, all studies
>> >> show children do better with two parents, two, not a male and female,
>> >> two parents. Want to protect children? Start by not getting divorced
>> >> and letting them have two, engaged, in-the-same-house parents. Next,
>> >> the majority of the children that I personally know in gay male couple
>> >> families are adopted children. Disposed-of children that exit the
>> >> foster/state systems into these loving homes. In lesbian couple
>> >> families, many of the children are their own children and they should
>> >> be with their Mom. Let Mom have a legal partner for the security of
>> >> those children. Two parents. No, none, zero studies exist to state
>> >> that children raised in same-sex couple families are harmed or suffer
>> >> any more than we heterosexual parents all-stars effect them.
>> >>
>> >> The courts asked the plaintiffs for proof of this accusation of
>> >> damage to children in same-sex parenting homes in the Prop 8 case in
>> >> California. This was the big opportunity to lay it out for all to see
>> >> and guess what? No evidence was presented. None. You can lie all you
>> >> want on TV and in sound bites, but in court, you must bring proof. No
>> >> proof was offered. Want to make the home life of children healthier?
>> >> Let them have two parents. Let GLBT couples marry and create
>> >> families and security for their children.
>> >>
>> >> I have specifically and intentionally spent time with my GLBT friends
>> >> and their children to observe. As a mother of two grown children
>> >> (both straight), I am impressed with what I have seen. GLBT people do
>> >> not want to destroy family, they want to create it, with their kids
>> >> and with the tossed away kids.
>> >>
>> >> 7. Homosexuals are more likely to molest children than
>> >> heterosexuals. This lie can make a person crazy because it is such an
>> >> offensive lie. This repeated nonsense has damaged relationships of
>> >> GLBT people within their families and extended families. "Don't let
>> >> Aunt Lesbian near the kids and surely not Uncle Gay. They will touch
>> >> our kids inappropriately and use them sexually." Molestation of
>> >> children is NOT an issue of orientation. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> >> Molestation of children is about being attracted to a child's age, not
>> >> gender of the child or the abuser. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
>> >>
>> >> In a 2008 study of medical records in a Denver emergency room in cases
>> >> of molestation, 1% had been attributed to GLBT people. The
>> >> overwhelming majority of molestation is inflicted by heterosexual
>> >> relatives and friends. This lie has to stop. FRC and the others quote
>> >> and requote 87% of all cases of pedophilia involve a gay person.
>> >> WHERE do they get this stuff? The one report they keep quoting with
>> >> assurance has been thrown out as sloppy and false work by any expert
>> >> of repute. Yet, the rhetoric they call the truth is robbing GLBT
>> >> people of family, and family of their gay relatives. Destruction of
>> >> family? Yes. For a lie.
>> >>
>> >> 8. Homosexuals are not seriously disadvantaged by discrimination.
>> >> GLBT couples are denied 1,138 rights that a married heterosexual
>> >> couple enjoys under the law. They are discriminated against in the
>> >> military, in families, in churches and in society. That appears to be
>> >> pretty serious disadvantage to me. Imagine, 1,138 rights denied a
>> >> GLBT couple that wants to commit to love and marriage and cannot.
>> >> Count to 1,138 and ask yourself: is this not discrimination?
>> >>
>> >> 9. Homosexuals are less likely to enter into a committed
>> >> relationship, less likely to be sexually faithful to a partner, even
>> >> if they have one, and are less likely to remain committed for a
>> >> lifetime, than are heterosexuals. Chicken or egg? Tell people they are
>> >> less-than and see what you get. Marriage is an institution in which
>> >> couples establish state protected, church ordained, committed
>> >> relationships. And it is denied to GLBT people. Take away marriage
>> >> from heterosexual couples and imagine the results. Oh, we have that,
>> >> heterosexual people living together. They don't seem to have the
>> >> success rate of marriage. Serial heterosexual monogamy.
>> >>
>> >> Marriage brings protection, a stronger bond of commitment and the
>> >> support of family and a community. GLBT people do not enjoy the
>> >> security of legal marriage in all 50 states. They do not grow up
>> >> thinking "who will I marry?". Why bother, it is not a reality (yet).
>> >> So, even when we do extend the right to marry to GLBT people, there
>> >> will be a season of transition. And, in time, there will be the
>> >> similar percentages of success/failure in same-sex marriages as in
>> >> heterosexual marriages.
>> >>
>> >> 10. GLBT people cannot be Christians. I devote an entire blogsite
>> >> Canyonwalker Connections to this issue. The best starting place is the
>> >> VERSES tab. If you believe this myth, you are ignoring a movement of
>> >> God that is exploding around the world. GLBT Christians are growing in
>> >> number, in spiritual maturity, in gifting and it is happening fast.
>> >> The best way to see proof is to visit an affirming congregation. Go
>> >> to www.Welcomingchurches.org <http://www.welcomingchurches.org/> <
>> http://www.welcomingchurches.org/>, call an
>>
>> - Hide quoted text -
>> >> affirming pastor in your area
>> >> from the list and go see what God is doing in His GLBT children. Of
>> >> course they can be Christians.
>> >>
>> >> Lies are evil. Lies breed fear. Myths about people or groups become
>> >> the basis for forming ideology about others. We have done it to
>> >> Native Americans, immigrants over our own history, the Irish, the
>> >> Germans, the Italians, the Jews, the Africans, the Mexicans, the
>> >> Muslims, the Russians, the "others". On and on. If we repeat the myth
>> >> enough, maybe it will gain muddy traction and stick. This is what FRC
>> >> and other Hate Groups do so well. They demonize the gay community. I
>> >> think they actually believe they are good and fighting the good fight
>> >> and hanging on to all that is sacred and holy. But, they are lying.
>> >> That is discrimination. And, while they are doing it, they are causing
>> >> destruction, that is hate. Maybe the public backlash of being
>> >> designated a Hate Group will shame them to reassess their message.
>> >>
>> >> Now, the final word as a Christian. I think there is something worse
>> >> than making the SPLC's Hate Groups List. My first concern would be
>> >> "am I pleasing God?". We all, all, have an image of God in us. We are
>> >> called to love, respect and serve others. We are called to be shining
>> >> lights in which others can see some piece of Jesus. Imagine a
>> >> kicked-out-of-church gay man, a shamed-by-her-family lesbian, a
>> >> suicidal Mormon teen who knows that honesty means losing family and
>> >> church, two men that want desperately to get married and build a
>> >> family, a young bisexual girl who cuts herself in the shame and pain
>> >> of her sexuality and religious oppression. God loves every one of
>> >> these people, the same way He loves me. God, in His Word, and Jesus,
>> >> in His life, told me to treat everyone with equality and love. If the
>> >> church cannot police our own, perhaps God is using secular
>> >> organizations to slap His children upside the head? Would not be the
>> >> first time. I will stand with, beside and in front of my GLBT fellow
>> >> humans to ensure that they gain equality with me.
>> >>
>> >> Family Research Council, you should be more concerned about where you
>> >> are on God's list of naughty or nice, sheep or goats. And Southern
>> >> Poverty Law Center, thank you, really . . . thank you.
>> >>
>> >> More:
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://canyonwalkerconnections.com/2010/11/ten-myths-about-the-glbt-community-a-christian-perspective/
>>
>>
>> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > By all means Tom! Go for it! I think you will be hard pressed to find
>> > anything of the sort from me!
>> >
>> > We can then review your misguided communiques'; and the hate, smear and
>> lies
>> > that you distribute on a daily basis.
>> >
>> > Keith
>> >
>> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 1:40 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Well, Shall I then prove this statement a lie and proceeed to give
>> >> numerous give examples of your misguided homophobic and political
>> >> hate, false political statement parroting lies, name calling and
>> >> smears? I will oblige.
>> >> Shall I?
>> >>
>> >> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Tommy, Tommy, Tommy,
>> >> >
>> >> > The last thing I do is hate, lie or smear. Go look in the mirror.
>> >> >
>> >> > Keith
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Fine. Then stop your hate, lies, smears, and homophobia, Keith.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 12/11/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> > Hey Tom,
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Don't even think about bringing our discussions from PF over to
>> >> >> > HP.
>> >> >> There
>> >> >> > are many members of HP who are members of PF....These members can
>> >> >> > make
>> >> >> their
>> >> >> > own determination about my purported, "homophobia"; but we are
>> not
>> >> >> going
>> >> >> > to get into political discussions in HP, at least for a while, and
>> >> >> > definitely not during the holiday season.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Keith
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> >> >> > From: Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > Date: Sat, Dec 11, 2010 at 10:54 AM
>> >> >> > Subject: Reply to Keith in Tampa on Gays
>> >> >> > To: historical-pictoral@googlegroups.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Keith -
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I have read your reply to my statements, and here is my response
>> >> >> > to
>> >> you.
>> >> >> > You clearly have a dirty, offensive, and misguided mind.
>> >> >> > You are Wrong again, again, and yet again.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I do not have any hate, lies and smear as you falsely and
>> >> >> > slanderously
>> >> >> > state and insult me over and over and over again in your
>> >> PoliticalForum
>> >> >> > group.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > You and your stated oposition to the repeal of Don't Ask Don't
>> >> >> > Tell
>> >> >> > are highly homophobic. Gays in the military most certainly do not
>> go
>> >> >> > around flaunting
>> >> >> > their sexuality. The existing military code of conduct will be
>> quite
>> >> >> > adequate to address any behavioral issues by a very few after the
>> >> >> > repeal of DADT.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > This explanation you put forth below for your opposition to DADT
>> >> >> > repeal demonstrates your misguided misconceptions
>> >> >> > and your blatant homophobia even further. Your thinking is not at
>> all
>> >> >> > cognitive, it is deeply prejudiced.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Most gays most certainly do NOT put their sexuality at the
>> forefront
>> >> >> > of their lives.
>> >> >> > In fact, most choose to hide and surpress their sexuality, and
>> their
>> >> >> > very essense, due to homophobia, opression, and persecution. While
>> >> >> > heterosexuals go around talking about their romantic encounters,
>> sex
>> >> >> lives,
>> >> >> > relationships, and crushes etc, ad nauseum, kissing and holding
>> hands
>> >> >> > in public and worse.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Many gays are chaste and even celebate, and most certainly do NOT
>> >> >> > flaunt their sexuality or dress in a flamboyant manner. Many look
>> >> >> > more
>> >> >> > ordinary and conservative than most heterosexuals. There are a
>> >> >> > few,
>> >> >> > but there are many many more heterosexuals who have flamboyant
>> dress
>> >> and
>> >> >> > behavior, and unusual sexualities and kinkly fetishes. Women who
>> >> >> > dress
>> >> >> > in a provocative manner, and men who over-groom and scent
>> themselves
>> >> >> > for the heterosexual chase. Pinning those
>> >> >> > behaviors soley on a few gays is unfair and false.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Your mischaracterizations, stereotyping, typecasting, and mind in
>> the
>> >> >> > gutter demonstrates your deep prejudice and homophobia.
>> >> >> > You, Keith, are a judgemental prejudiced homophobic bigot.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yes, you are.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On 12/10/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> Lil' TommyTomTom,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This is where your hate, lies and smear get in the way of your
>> >> >> >> cognitive
>> >> >> >> thinking.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Because I am opposed to those individuals who put what they do in
>> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> bedroom at the forefront of their lives; in other words,
>> >> >> >> because
>> I
>> >> am
>> >> >> >> opposed to those individuals that define their very existence by
>> >> their
>> >> >> >> sexuality, this does not make me a "Homophobe".
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> What you do behind closed doors might be wonderful. I don't
>> >> >> >> know.
>> >> >> >> I
>> >> >> will
>> >> >> >> never know. I don't care what it is that you do sexually.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> I am opposed to those militants who are attempting to force their
>> >> >> > sexuality
>> >> >> >> upon me, and the rest of America. I am opposed to parades in
>> front
>> >> of
>> >> >> >> children with you donned in assless chaps, boas, and/or dressed
>> >> >> >> as
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> Statute of Liberty. I am opposed to you, and any other group or
>> >> >> >> entity
>> >> >> >> demanding more rights than what the rest of Americans enjoy,
>> because
>> >> of
>> >> >> > who
>> >> >> >> you sleep with.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> You are correct, that there have been Gays in our United States
>> >> >> >> military
>> >> >> >> since 1776. None of them chose to get out and parade around,
>> >> >> announcing
>> >> >> >> who it is that they are boffing or honking on. This is how it
>> >> should
>> >> >> be.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> KeithInDC
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Tommy News <
>> tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> Wrong again Keith.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Your homophobia is showing.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Gays have been serving in the military, well, since before
>> >> Alexander
>> >> >> >>> The Great and his lover Hephaesteon.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> The existing military code of conduct should be adequate for any
>> >> >> >>> behavior issues from a very few.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> By your logic, heterosexuals should be banned from the military
>> as
>> >> >> >>> well due to criminals like Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove,
>> >> >> >>> variuus
>> >> >> >>> felons, etc.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Please also note that Military Enlistment of Felons Doubled
>> >> >> >>> under
>> >> the
>> >> >> >>> Bush Administration.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/military_enlistment_of_felons_has_doubled
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Top Ten American War
>> >> >> >>> Criminals Living
>> >> >> >>> Freely Today
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Rense Exclusive
>> >> >> >>> By Douglas Herman
>> >> >> >>> 12-14-5
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> A war crime is a punishable offense, under international law,
>> >> >> >>> for
>> >> >> >>> violations of the law of war by any person or persons, military
>> or
>> >> >> >>> civilian. Every violation of the law of war is a war crime.
>> >> >> >>> Also,
>> >> war
>> >> >> >>> crimes are those committed during wartime in violation of
>> >> >> >>> international conventions intended to protect civilian
>> populations
>> >> and
>> >> >> >>> prisoners of war. You will note that many on this list,
>> categorized
>> >> as
>> >> >> >>> war criminals, ironically, are among the most powerful and
>> wealthy
>> >> US
>> >> >> >>> citizens
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Robert McNamara. Former US Secretary of Defense, helped kill
>> >> >> >>> approximately 2-3 million, mostly poor Vietnamese, Cambodians
>> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >>> Laotians. Not to mention a sizeable portion of the 58,000 dead
>> >> >> >>> US
>> >> >> >>> servicemen pressed into that war. Not to mention that equal
>> number
>> >> of
>> >> >> >>> US veterans who committed suicide in the years to follow.
>> McNamara
>> >> is
>> >> >> >>> an Elder Statesman now, walking around freely today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Henry Kissinger. Former US Secretary of State, had a hand in the
>> >> >> >>> killings mentioned above. Plus condoned thousands of additional
>> >> >> >>> killings in Chile, under the sponsorship of US foreign policy.
>> Won
>> >> a
>> >> >> >>> Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. Elder Statesman, walking
>> around
>> >> >> >>> freely today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> George HW Bush. Former super spy, former US President, the
>> >> >> >>> first
>> >> >> >>> to
>> >> >> >>> graduate from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) into the
>> >> >> >>> presidency and bring lessons learned at CIA headquarters
>> >> >> >>> directly
>> >> into
>> >> >> >>> US policy. While serving under Ronald Reagan, helped encourage
>> the
>> >> >> >>> Iraq-Iran war, resulting in deaths of one million people,
>> allowing
>> >> US
>> >> >> >>> oil and arms dealers to profit greatly. During the 'Eighties,
>> >> helped
>> >> >> >>> encourage US sponsored military dictators in Latin America,
>> guilty
>> >> of
>> >> >> >>> extermination of thousands of ordinary citizens, via US-trained
>> >> "death
>> >> >> >>> squads." Conducted pre-emptive war with Panama, resulting in
>> >> >> >>> 1,000-4,000 deaths, simply to topple former CIA henchman and
>> >> >> >>> drug
>> >> >> >>> lord, Manuel Noriega. Elder Statesman, walking around freely
>> today,
>> >> >> >>> basking in limelight.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> George W. Bush. Two term US president, elected using electronic,
>> >> >> >>> "black box" voting methods that permit no verification of actual
>> >> vote
>> >> >> >>> count. Conducted two pre-emptive wars, resulting in excess of
>> >> 100,000
>> >> >> >>> US. Iraqi and Afghani deaths. Condones the use of torture as US
>> >> >> >>> policy. Condones rejection of the Geneva Convention, becoming
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >>> first US president to openly do so. Considers the US
>> >> >> >>> Constitution
>> >> >> >>> "A
>> >> >> >>> Goddamned piece of paper." Embattled Statesman, walking around
>> >> freely
>> >> >> >>> today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Dick Cheney. Former US Secretary of Defense, and signator of the
>> >> PNAC,
>> >> >> >>> and current Vice President. Accused mastermind of the 911
>> >> "terrorist"
>> >> >> >>> attack against the US (unproven), Cheney has been called "The
>> Vice
>> >> >> >>> President For Torture" by the Washington Post. A staunch
>> supporter
>> >> of
>> >> >> >>> the Middle Eastern War Without End, Cheney, like Wolfowitz and
>> >> >> >>> Rumsfeld bears particular responsibility for the conduct of the
>> >> >> >>> war.
>> >> >> >>> Elder Statesman, walking around freely today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> 8. Paul Wolfowitz. Former US Deputy Secretary of Defense and
>> >> architect
>> >> >> >>> of the Middle Eastern War Without End. Casualties in two
>> >> >> >>> pre-emptive
>> >> >> >>> wars now exceed 100,000 deaths, not including the estimated
>> 2,000+
>> >> US
>> >> >> >>> deaths and 15,000 wounded. Won a Presidential Medal of Freedom
>> for
>> >> his
>> >> >> >>> work and a promotion to the head of the World Bank. Elder
>> >> >> >>> Statesman,
>> >> >> >>> walking around freely today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Donald Rumsfeld. US Secretary of Defense during the Middle
>> Eastern
>> >> War
>> >> >> >>> Without End. A signator of the PNAC document that calls for
>> >> >> >>> pre-emptive hostile acts of US imperialism conducted by
>> >> >> >>> overwhelming
>> >> >> >>> military means (War) against weaker nations possessing scarce
>> >> >> >>> resources. Aside from the estimated 100,000 Iraqi deaths, the
>> >> >> >>> estimated 15-20,000 US casualties (dead and injured), and the
>> >> >> >>> untold
>> >> >> >>> tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (millions?) who will
>> >> suffer
>> >> >> >>> from the effects of depleted uranium in the years to come,
>> Rumsfeld
>> >> >> >>> remains convinced the "war on terror" is just. A long time
>> >> >> >>> political
>> >> >> >>> appointee, Rumsfeld is an Elder Statesman, walking around freely
>> >> >> >>> today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Ruppert Murdoch. Token American. Media baron. Never met a war he
>> >> >> >>> didn't like. Responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and
>> untold
>> >> >> >>> millions of refugees through media encouragement of harsh, US
>> >> foreign
>> >> >> >>> policy. Owns a sizable chunk of the US news media. Murdoch is
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> most
>> >> >> >>> visible Godfather of the Mainstream News Mafia (MNM). Elder
>> >> Statesman
>> >> >> >>> and multi-billionaire news baron, walking around freely today.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> Former USAF veteran (Honorably Discharged) and Elder Statesman,
>> >> >> >>> Douglas Herman writes regularly for Rense and is the author of
>> The
>> >> >> >>> Guns of Dallas
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> More:
>> >> >> >>> http://www.rense.com/general69/tpten.htm
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On 12/10/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> > Two words, a whole bunch of syllables, as to why DADT should
>> NOT
>> >> be
>> >> >> >>> > repealed: "Bradley Manning".
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > *According to Bradley's online chats, he was in "an awkward
>> >> >> >>> > place"
>> >> >> both
>> >> >> >>> > "emotionally and psychologically." So in a snit, he betrayed
>> his
>> >> >> > country
>> >> >> >>> by
>> >> >> >>> > orchestrating the greatest leak of classified intelligence in
>> >> >> >>> > U.S.
>> >> >> >>> history.
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > Isn't that in the Army Code of Conduct? You must follow orders
>> at
>> >> >> >>> > all
>> >> >> >>> times.
>> >> >> >>> > Exceptions will be made for servicemen in an awkward place.
>> Now,
>> >> who
>> >> >> >>> wants a
>> >> >> >>> > hug? Waitress! Three more apple-tinis!"
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > *
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Tommy News <
>> >> tommysnews@gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> >> Many Democratic Activists are fighting DADT both in and out
>> >> >> >>> >> of
>> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> courts..
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> On 12/10/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vincent@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> > What part of "in the courts", are you missing?
>> >> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> > On Dec 10, 10:16 am, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Wrong again.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Many Democratic Activists are indeed fighting DADT.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> You are quite mistaken, yet again.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> On 12/10/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Not in the courts they aren't Tom. Drop the suit and
>> DADT
>> >> AND
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > complete ban vanish.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > On Dec 9, 12:10 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> No, that is false. Many Democrats and actvists are
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> fighting
>> >> >> >>> AGAINST
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> both.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> On 12/8/10, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > I emailed POTUS and told him to drop his challenge in
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >>> courts.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > It didn't work.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > DOMA too.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > Dems own BOTH!!! And dems are fighting FOR both!
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > God this is easy
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > On Dec 8, 12:08 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ACTION Alert: Call and Fax your two US Senators on
>> DADT
>> >> >> > Repeal
>> >> >> >>> >> NOW!
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> The Federal Eye: Senate plans procedural vote on
>> 'don't
>> >> >> ask,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> don't
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> tell'
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Network NewsX Profile
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> View More Activity
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> TOOLBOX
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Resize Print E-mail Reprints
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> COMMENT
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> 0 Comments
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> BE THE FIRST TO COMMENT
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> You must be logged in to leave a comment. Log in |
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Register
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Why Do I Have to Log In Again?
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Log In Again? CLOSEWe've made some updates to
>> >> >> >>> washingtonpost.com
>> >> >> >>> >> 's
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Groups, MyPost and comment pages. We need you to
>> verify
>> >> >> your
>> >> >> >>> >> MyPost
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ID
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> by logging in before you can post to the new pages.
>> We
>> >> >> >>> apologize
>> >> >> >>> >> for
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the inconvenience.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Discussion PolicyYour browser's settings may be
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> preventing
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> you
>> >> >> >>> >> from
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commenting on and viewing comments about this item.
>> See
>> >> >> >>> >> instructions
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for fixing the problem.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Discussion Policy CLOSEComments that include
>> profanity
>> >> or
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> personal
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> attacks or other inappropriate comments or material
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> will
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> be
>> >> >> >>> >> removed
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> from the site. Additionally, entries that are
>> unsigned
>> >> or
>> >> >> >>> contain
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "signatures" by someone other than the actual author
>> >> will
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> removed.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Finally, we will take steps to block users who
>> violate
>> >> any
>> >> >> of
>> >> >> >>> our
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> posting standards, terms of use or privacy policies
>> or
>> >> any
>> >> >> >>> other
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> policies governing this site. Please review the full
>> >> rules
>> >> >> >>> >> governing
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commentaries and discussions. You are fully
>> responsible
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> content that you post.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> By Ed O'Keefe
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Wednesday, December 8, 2010; 11:10 AM
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) is likely
>> to
>> >> >> hold
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> procedural vote Wednesday on a bill that would end
>> the
>> >> >> >>> military's
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "don't ask, don't tell" law, but the measure is
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> expected
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> fail,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according to Senate Democratic aides and advocates
>> for
>> >> >> ending
>> >> >> >>> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> law.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Reid said this morning he would likely file a motion
>> >> later
>> >> >> >>> today
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> reconsider the annual defense authorization bill, a
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> massive
>> >> >> >>> piece
>> >> >> >>> >> of
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> legislation that includes language instructing the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Pentagon
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> policy.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> But holding a vote today would keep several
>> Republicans
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> >>> >> voting
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> proceed, according to aides and activists familiar
>> with
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> ongoing
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> negotiations who are not authorized to speak on the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> record.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Republican
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> senators, led by Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), have
>> said
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> they
>> >> >> >>> would
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> filibuster attempts to move forward with the bill.
>> >> McCain,
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vocal
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> critic of a Pentagon study released last week on the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> topic,
>> >> >> >>> wants
>> >> >> >>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> hold more hearings with frontline military
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> commanders
>> >> and
>> >> >> >>> senior
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> enlisted officers before voting to repeal the law.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Holding an ultimately unsuccessful vote today has
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> potential
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> further enrage liberal Democrats and gay rights
>> >> activists
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> upset
>> >> >> >>> >> with
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Congressional Democrats and the White House for
>> failing
>> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> deliver
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> several campaign promises.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> If the procedural vote fails today, "it will be
>> >> impossible
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> raise
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> money for Senate Democrats that are up in 2012,"
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> said
>> >> Fred
>> >> >> >>> Sainz,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vice
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> president of the Human Rights Campaign, a group
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> actively
>> >> >> >>> lobbying
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> for
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end to the ban. "If Reid likes the majority leader
>> >> title,
>> >> >> he
>> >> >> >>> >> better
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> think twice about the way this is currently set up
>> for
>> >> >> >>> failure."
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> "We're staring at failure," said another experienced
>> >> >> activist
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> involved
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> with the negotiations, who was not authorized to
>> speak
>> >> on
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> record.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Gay rights groups and some Democratic senators want
>> >> Reid
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> move
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> forward to consideration of a tax cut compromise and
>> a
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> $1.1
>> >> >> >>> >> trillion
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill to keep the government running before
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> reconsidering
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> defense
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> They cite the expected support of moderate
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Republican
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Sens.
>> >> >> >>> Susan
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Collins (Maine) and Scott Brown (Mass.), who are
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> willing
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> support
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> repeal if Reid holds the vote after the tax and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> spending
>> >> >> > bills
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> allows for a fair debate process. Despite weeks of
>> >> >> questions
>> >> >> >>> and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> deliberations with Democrats, Collins has yet to
>> signal
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> her
>> >> >> >>> final
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> intentions or to clarify what a "fair debate
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> process"
>> >> >> means,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to Senate aides and others familiar with the
>> >> negotiations.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Democrats are focused on also securing the support
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Sens.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> George
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Voinovich (R-Ohio), Lisa Murkowski (R-Alaska),
>> Richard
>> >> >> Lugar
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> (R-Ind.),
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> John Ensign (R-Nev.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine),
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> according
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Democratic aides.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> The defense bill failed in September to garner the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> 60
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> votes
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> necessary
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to move forward. Wednesday's action would be similar
>> to
>> >> >> what
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> occurred
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> in September and would not represent a final vote on
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> issue.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> An unsuccessful vote could lead to several
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> scenarios,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> including
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> efforts to pass repeal of "don't ask, don't tell" as
>> a
>> >> >> >>> standalone
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> bill, adding it to other legislation expected to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> pass
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> in
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> next
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> week, or postponing debate on the issue until the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> new
>> >> year
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> start of a Republican-dominated Congress.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> If Congress doesn't act, the Pentagon and gay rights
>> >> >> > advocates
>> >> >> >>> >> have
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> warned that federal judges considering cases that
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> challenge
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> constitutionality of the ban could at any time order
>> an
>> >> >> >>> immediate
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> end
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to the ban, leading to potential chaos for military
>> >> >> > recruiters
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> troops in the field.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> A successful vote -- again, unlikely if it happens
>> >> today,
>> >> >> >>> >> according
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> activists -- would put the issue back on the
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Senate's
>> >> >> formal
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> to-do
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> list, making it possible for senators to debate and
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> vote
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> on
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> the
>> >> >> >>> >> bill
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> before the end of next week when they plan to go
>> home.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> More:
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/08/AR201.
>> >> >> >>> ..
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a
>> time.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> >> Groups.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > For options & help seehttp://
>> >> >> >>> >> groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * Visit our other community
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> > <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> Tommy- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google
>> Groups.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > For options & help seehttp://
>> >> >> >>> groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > * Visit our other community
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> <http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > <http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> > http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> --
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >>> >> >> Tommy- Hide quoted text -
>> >> >> >>> >> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> >> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> > --
>> >> >> >>> >> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> >> >>> >> > For options & help see
>> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>> >> >
>> >> >> >>> >> > * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >>> >> > http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> <http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> > http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> >> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our
>> >> >> >>> >> > polls.
>> >> >> >>> >> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> --
>> >> >> >>> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >>> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >>> >> Tommy
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> --
>> >> >> >>> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> >> >>> >> For options & help see
>> >> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >>> >> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> > http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> >>> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> >> >>> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>> >>
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > --
>> >> >> >>> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> >> >>> > For options & help see
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>> >
>> >> >> >>> > * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >>> > http://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> > http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> >> >>> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> >>> Have a great day,
>> >> >> >>> Tommy
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> --
>> >> >> >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> >> >>> For options & help see
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >>> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ <http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> > http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> >> >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> >> >> >> For options & help see
>> http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> * Visit our other community at
>> >> >> >> http://www.PoliticalForum.com/ <http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> http://www.politicalforum.com/> <
>> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/><
>> >> >> http://www.politicalforum.com/>
>> >> >> >> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
>> >> >> >> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> > Have a great day,
>> >> >> > Tommy
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> >> Have a great day,
>> >> >> Tommy
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> >> Have a great day,
>> >> Tommy
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>

--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.