Lee Hirsch is giving dozens of interviews to promote the documentary
but has talked little about what his own childhood was like, perhaps
because he says much of it's still blocked out.
By Lucas Grindley
Bully lets us peek into the school lives of several kids who are being
tormented by classmates — but only because director Lee Hirsch was
there to witness it all happening.
What propelled him into making the eyebrow-raising documentary must
have been, in part, his own childhood, when walking home from school
was like pushing through a "gauntlet" and other kids beat on him for
"sport." For Hirsch, the camera was his way of fighting back for the
kids in the film and for those all over the country who are
experiencing the same thing.
Hirsch spoke with The Advocate about growing up bullied, whether the
problem really does affect LGBT youth more, and how he got former
Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee to tell his Fox News
viewers that they should go see the movie.
The Advocate: As people are watching the movie, I don't know if they
realize that it's you behind the camera just feet away from all of
this abuse that's happening. I know you expected to see these kinds of
things that happened, so what did you do with Alex, for example, who
is attacked often, to prepare for the moment when he would get beat
up?
Lee Hirsch: I don't know that there was anything that could I do to
prepare. I didn't know what was going on to the extent that it was
going on. A really good case in point is the first scene in the film
where a student is saying profanities and threatening him on the bus.
Because we were such a low-budget film, I didn't have any way to
monitor the audio. So I remember kind of saying to Alex after that
ride, "seemed like you had a good bus ride," and saying to my
producer, "he might have even made a friend." That's how wrong I got
that — until we were in the edit room months later and we actually
heard what was said that day.
Obviously, the scene that was in the trailer and that people are
really talking about, immediately after that happened we made the
decision to stop the film and speak to the family and speak to the
school. Alex and I talked a lot about bullying and the stuff that he
was going through. He gradually opened up more and more over the
course of the school year. What I know in my heart is that Alex knew
that I had his back. And caring, being invested in his story meant a
lot to him.
It's important that you had his back because you were bullied as a kid.
And he knew that. He and I had talked a lot about that. It was a big
part of the relationships and the conversations with families. I
thought of Alex and his family and other families in this film not as
subjects but as partners. So those relationships were very important,
and it really mattered to me that they knew. There were families that
we shot extensively for the film that aren't in the movie, and in each
of those relationships it was really important that those students
knew that I was there to fight for them. That's what this film was
about.
What was it like for you to go home after a whole day of Alex getting
picked on? As someone who was bullied, was it bringing up bad memories
for you?
The whole process has brought up bad memories for me. This was a hard
film to make. There were many, many hard days for a lot of reasons.
That was a really hard day in particular. There was a lot of emotion
throughout, but that was hard. I think probably that the connection
that you are making with my own bullying is interesting. It's the
experience of having a group go at you and knowing what that looks
like and feels like. It wasn't surprising because I'd been through
that. There are lots of memories that I actually don't have. People
tell me about things that happened that I can't even remember. I think
I still have a lot of it blocked.
You've said just getting home from school was almost impossible for
you. I know that a constant theme in the movie was people riding the
bus home, which was harrowing. What was it in your case? Were you
taking the bus, walking, what happened?
I walked. Yeah, I just remember it felt like running the gauntlet. It
was just sort of sport to hit me, or to go at me. One of the things I
do remember is that there was a period where I felt like my arms were
so bruised that they were just yellow. They went beyond black and
blue. They just had this permanent yellow. So it was difficult.
You've gotten such an amazing response with celebrities coming out
saying they had been bullied. Meryl Streep told you she had been
bullied. How did that come about?
She had offered to host a screening in New York, and it felt as though
she had never shared this before, and I don't know because haven't
been able to do the research. But she told this story about being up
in a tree and that kids were hitting her with sticks, hitting her
knees until they bled. It was almost as if as she told it, she was
also, in that way, laughing it off. What she describes was harrowing,
but she was very powerful. I had such a nice chat with her afterwards.
The other thing that happened that night is she learned from another
presenter who went to school with her daughter that her daughter is a
defender. She had been the one who would always stand up for kids who
were being picked on and bullied. That was awesome because she never
knew that.
I think it's amazing for people to hear that Meryl Streep was bullied,
or that you, the director of this big documentary, had been bullied.
I think lots of people in our world were probably bullied. I think
that maybe you know it's one of those kinds of experiences that helps
one be empathetic. I think empathy is required to act. I just wonder
if our numbers are higher, which is also I think good news for kids
who are being bullied out there to see others who have gone through it
that have gone on to make a difference.
You tell the story of this transgender boy named Kelby who was
identifying then as lesbian and was ostracized and attacked. For a lot
of kids like Kelby in the movie, they are attacked for being gay or
just for being perceived as being gay. For Alex, the kids said he was
creepy or whatever. What was it for you?
There's a part of me that almost wants to outright reject that
question. That's one of the things that gets said to kids a lot when
you are bullied: What are you doing to bring this on, what are you
doing to make this happen? And I remember that so, so well. I couldn't
find an answer. I couldn't come to that understanding. Now as I look
back, I think it had a lot to do with my parents who were three
generations older than any of the other kids' parents. My dad is going
to be 93, and so I didn't have, I wasn't dressed like the other kids
and my hair was different. I don't know that I had the same kind of
socialization skills at that point. I was sort of smart, sort of off,
didn't have the skills to deflect it and that was something that
people honed in on.
Since the movie, Alex and Kelby have both left their schools. And I
guess you changed schools too when you were a kid. Did anything
change? Is that a solution for kids?
Things did change for me, by the end of my sophomore year in high
school. It wasn't an immediate solution for the problem. Problems in
some ways followed. For some kids, changing schools is an option and
can be helpful. I'm learning so much now about the numbers of kids who
are being home schooled because of bullying. Parents are frustrated
and they think it's the right or the best and only choice in some
cases. The thing is that not all families can switch their kids'
schools. It's an economics issue. It's a geographical issue. If you
are in an urban environment it's much easier, if you're in a smaller
town it's much harder. Your livelihood can be pegged to that
community. It's really tough stuff. Parents are engaging now in a very
powerful conversation through this film about how they support and
fight for their kids when they are being bullied, and they should
understand the full arsenal. That includes escalating really
powerfully within the school system, documenting, making things
formal, going up the chain of command, all the way to the
superintendent. Use local media if you have to. There are lots of
things in the arsenal, and parents need to get very creative, and
their kids need to know that they are fighting for them.
There is one disturbing scene where Alex tells the administrator. And
the administrator says, If you had only been telling me about this
before I could have done something. Alex says, Well I have told you.
Was that your experience too? Did you try to tell administrators and
nothing was done?
There were many parallels between Alex's world and what I remember.
There is this thing that happens in the film where you really see this
mistrust. It brings home the conversation with educators that when you
say to someone that you are going to take care of something, they
remember if you did or you didn't. And that affects whether they are
going to feel like they can go to you again in a situation where they
are experiencing bullying or harassment. But, yeah, I absolutely
remember administrators not helping, or being unwilling or unable to.
I think it's very common.
Bullying obviously goes way back. It's not a new thing. So why is it
getting attention now, how do you explain it?
It feels like we've talked about it as a nation a lot because of the
tragedies. We are also hearing more about when there is a suicide.
When we were kids, this never made it into the media or the suicide
itself was never revealed as a suicide. So the national conversation
raised the alarm. I'd like to think that we are moving toward a
tipping point. The conversation is now, for me, if when people mention
bullying and they in the same sentence mention I'm going to stand up
to it, I'm going to step up, and if we play any role in advancing that
piece of the national discourse, then I'll be really proud and
pleased.
The issue of suicides has been especially important to Advocate
readers because it has so affected LGBT youth. I know you've said
bullying affects everybody. But is this whole suicide problem more
acute in the LGBT community, and if so does it deserve a different
sort of callout?
I 'd rather not speak of it from a perspective of suicide. I think
that there are kids who are at risk. I think special needs kids are at
really high risk for bullying. I think GLBT kids are at high risk for
bullying, and the organizations like PFLAG and GLSEN and HRC have done
such an incredible job raising awareness and really owning the impact
that bullying has on their kids and their community. I have spent a
lot of my time advocating for that within the special needs community.
What I really felt like was that everyone needed to take a cue from
the awareness-raising, and being really ahead of the curve, and being
so active and profoundly impactful, that the gay community has been in
the last few years — and probably longer. I do think it's important
that we speak about this broadly because you don't want a situation
where you feel like you can only get support if you're gay because
other kids get bulled too. So I think it's important to frame the
conversation as being about empathy and kindness and stepping up and
getting all sorts of people engaged and involved and caring about the
issue. Doing so uplifts absolutely everybody.
And that's how you get people like Mike Huckabee supporting you?
And then you have people like Mike Huckabee supporting the film, and
you have conservatives going out to see the film that probably, on
analysis, will make them rethink how they've felt about homosexuality
after they spend the time and get to know this incredible family —
Kelby's parents, Kelby. It's really amazing, and that's important, and
that's going to help to change the conversation and make an impact for
LGBT kids, for sure, I'm convinced of it.
More:
http://www.advocate.com/Arts_and_Entertainment/Film/The_Director_of_Bully_Was_Bullied_Too/
--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy
--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy
--
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