He sees them as second class citizens.
On 12/22/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tommy,
>
> Where is the need to champion ANY group when you champion all as equals ??
>
> On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:00 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Keith-
>>
>> Although you flippantly state that "Yea, I am an arrogant asshole",
>> you are in fact a misguided homophobe, as you have demonstrated
>> clearly in your anti-gay statements in these groups.
>>
>> I suggest that you make youself a New Year's resolution to become an
>> ally, champion, and advocate for your oppressed gay friends and group
>> members, as other Republicans have done.
>>
>> Merry Christmas.
>>
>> On 12/20/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hey Wayne!
>> >
>> > How do ya think stereotypes get started? Any truth to them?
>> >
>> > Hey Vince!
>> >
>> > Well, the last thing I wanted to come across as, was condescending!
>> > Yea,
>> I
>> > am an arrogant asshole, but usually a pretty friendly asshole! Nope,
>> > not
>> > pacifying anyone, ya wanna hear the truth? Come on over and I will
>> > shed
>> > the light for ya!
>> >
>> > Good to see ya, and Merry Christmas!
>> >
>> > KeithInDC
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 9:03 PM, vince brackney
>> > <vincebrackney@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >> You know it isn't really worth the effort to get Keith to see the other
>> >> side of the coin. Nothing more condescending than someone who claims
>> they
>> >> are not prejudice and then make the statements that he does. It like
>> >> saying
>> >> I have gay friends so I am not a hater, when really they are just
>> >> pacifying
>> >> us.
>> >>
>> >> He is really saying these things based on his experience of years ago,
>> and
>> >> I suspect that was before DADT was even in existence. He has opinion
>> just
>> >> like everyone else. And everyone has the right to his or hers own
>> opinion.
>> >> I
>> >> just wish it wasn't aired in this group.
>> >>
>> >> I am very thankful for the straight friends I do have that are truly
>> >> not
>> >> prejudice and except me for who I am. Wish we had more of them in the
>> >> world.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 7:26 PM, wayne berry <whitenoiz1@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> oh god, keith, i love ya! but do not tell me that you really can't see
>> >>> the
>> >>> forest for the trees?
>> >>> heterosexuality represents 90% of the population. in fact if i am not
>> >>> carrying a CD by madonna in my rainbow colored purse, no one ever
>> >>> suspects
>> >>> i'm gay! no one suspects my husband is bisexual even when he says
>> >>> judas
>> >>> priest is his favorite metal band! because most people are straight,
>> the
>> >>> assumption both gays AND straights operate under is that when you meet
>> a
>> >>> man
>> >>> you recognize that odds are pretty good he likes the ladies - you got
>> >>> a
>> 9
>> >>> in
>> >>> 10 chance and rarely will you be wrong. except when you ARE wrong.
>> >>> stereotypes exist because in any group you can name there are often
>> >>> people
>> >>> who fit certain ideas that are recognized - some jews ARE cheap, some
>> >>> white
>> >>> people ARE incredibly "uptight", some gays DO prefer flowers to
>> >>> football...
>> >>> but within any stereotype there are plenty enough dissonances to
>> >>> reveal
>> a
>> >>> stereotype for what it is... a careless and casual painting of a large
>> >>> group
>> >>> of people as being all the same, when indeed none of us are.
>> >>> no one has to say they are straight because there are so many of you
>> that
>> >>> you can scarcely imagine people who are not like you.
>> >>> my jobs in kitchens are not as regimented as the military, yet there's
>> >>> still a certain amount of macho involved in the job! but here is the
>> >>> thing... in all but the most antiseptic atmospheres, someone is gonna
>> ask
>> >>> you about your life outside the job. and there is nothing that sounds
>> >>> worse
>> >>> than saying you don't have a girlfriend or a wife or even just some
>> girl
>> >>> you
>> >>> bang now and again, than saying, "oh, i'm sorry i don't talk about
>> >>> personal
>> >>> stuff like that." or weirder if you constantly avoid the question.
>> >>> when
>> >>> there is no penalty for telling the truth you are much less a freak
>> when
>> >>> you
>> >>> answer truthfully, "well, no i don't have a wife or a girlfriend...
>> >>> i'm
>> >>> gay
>> >>> and i have a husband/boyfriend... ' or even, "i'm not seeing anyone
>> >>> 'special' right now, but i'm doing OK, if ya catch my drift."
>> >>> i mean on one hand being gay informs a lot of my life (my tastes are
>> >>> somewhat different from yours, observably, aren't they?) but in the
>> most
>> >>> mundane aspects of life - the need for personal connection, the need
>> >>> to
>> >>> eat,
>> >>> the need to have some sort of meaning in your work? it's the same for
>> >>> a
>> >>> straight guy as a gay guy.
>> >>> i really can't understand your need to cling to a fairly outdated
>> concept
>> >>> of what a gay man is when you are the moderator of a group that gives
>> you
>> >>> every evidence of a gay men who are far from those stereotypical
>> >>> pictures.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Keith In Tampa
>> >>> <keithintampa@gmail.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Hello Mustang! Good to see ya!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> First, I knew, when I wrote my initial missive, that there would be
>> >>>> at
>> >>>> least one thinking, "common sense" kinda guy (<Grin!!> asshole!!)
>> >>>> who
>> >>>> would
>> >>>> call me on my last missive! Touche'!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> It is in fact a hard concept that I was attempting to frame, and
>> >>>> you
>> >>>> are correct....Sort of.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Yes, as I stated, the military cultivates a "Macho" image, and it is
>> >>>> hard
>> >>>> to not separate the Macho Man who is the ladies' man. This is in
>> direct
>> >>>> conflict with my statement that the military does not allow for those
>> >>>> who
>> >>>> wear their sexual identity on their sleeve.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> There are a number of men in the military who do in fact play the
>> >>>> "cassanova" role. I will admit that to a degree, this is a double
>> >>>> standard
>> >>>> and in conflict with my premise.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Having said that, in my 53 years, I have yet to meet a Heterosexual,
>> who
>> >>>> identifies himself as a, "Heterosexual". That his whole life
>> >>>> revolves
>> >>>> around being, "Heterosexual". His politics; his social life; his
>> >>>> mannerisms; his diet; his wardrobe; his decor; his passions, likes,
>> >>>> dislikes, hatreds, loves, and yes, sexual appetite, are all defined
>> >>>> by
>> >>>> his
>> >>>> "Straightness".
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Please point this/these individual(s) out to me.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Therein lies the distinction, and no, nothing about the repeal of
>> >>>> DADT
>> >>>> will change the rejection by the United States Military on this one
>> >>>> major
>> >>>> issue, of Gay men or women who choose to defend our Nation. Just
>> >>>> like
>> >>>> their
>> >>>> straight counterparts, they cannot and will not be able to broadcast
>> >>>> their
>> >>>> sexual proclivities, as is done so much in the Gay community, and
>> maybe
>> >>>> in
>> >>>> some Heterosexual social circles; (Like the Nudist/Swapping crews).
>> >>>>
>> >>>> KeithInDC
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Mustang <mustangspnkr@yahoo.com
>> >wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Keith,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> While I agree with many, if not most, things you say we disagree on
>> >>>>> a
>> >>>>> couple. This being one of them.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "The military does not allow for ANYONE, and this will include
>> >>>>> heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, to wear their sexuality
>> >>>>> openly,
>> >>>>> or to
>> >>>>> broadcast their sexual likes or dislikes publicly.
>> >>>>> "
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Heterosexuals already do wear their sexuality preference openly.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Are you saying that everyone will suddenly be forbidden any
>> opportunity
>> >>>>> to display or even have pictures of their family and friends? No
>> >>>>> one
>> >>>>> will
>> >>>>> be allowed to admit they write, call, or discuss any communications
>> >>>>> with
>> >>>>> their wives, husbands, girlfriends or boyfriends? No one will be
>> >>>>> allowed to
>> >>>>> talk about how things are going at home or plans after discharge?
>> >>>>> While on
>> >>>>> leave, no one can invite a male or female military friend to spend
>> the
>> >>>>> Holidays with a spouse, or to openly have two Dads or two Moms?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Israeli military has not gone to hell in a hand basket. They
>> have
>> >>>>> no problem with both genders or gay people being drafted and then
>> >>>>> working
>> >>>>> cohesively. It's the same as acceptance of blacks and women was
>> >>>>> decades
>> >>>>> ago. Much ado about nothing. I am certain our military will be
>> >>>>> able
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> keep their minds focused on the tasks assigned. Anyone who is
>> >>>>> qualified
>> >>>>> should have the right to apply to defend our nation. Absolute 100%
>> >>>>> heterosexuality should not be a requirement. Nothing will change.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Mustang
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Bigotry disguised as morality is still bigotry just as an outhouse
>> with
>> >>>>> marble columns is still an outhouse. - D.A. Ridgely (whomever he is)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>> *From:* Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com>
>> >>>>> *To:* historical-pictoral@googlegroups.com
>> >>>>> *Sent:* Sun, December 19, 2010 9:18:24 AM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Historical Pictorial] Victory! Senate Repeals 'Don't
>> >>>>> Ask, Don't Tell', Despite 31 Republican No Votes and John McCain's
>> >>>>> Fillibuster Attempt
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> No question, I see this issue from a different perspective than I
>> >>>>> believe most do here in HP.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I don't see the DADT repeal as being all that significant, and
>> although
>> >>>>> I agree with Rob and his assessment, I also think that there is a
>> >>>>> major
>> >>>>> component to all of this, that Rob, or anyone else in the group has
>> >>>>> touched
>> >>>>> upon.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The military does not allow for ANYONE, and this will include
>> >>>>> heterosexuals as well as homosexuals, to wear their sexuality
>> >>>>> openly,
>> >>>>> or to
>> >>>>> broadcast their sexual likes or dislikes publicly. In other words,
>> NO
>> >>>>> ONE
>> >>>>> in the military can be or will be identified by their sexual
>> >>>>> proclivities or
>> >>>>> sexual identification, which is a common factor in the Gay
>> >>>>> community.
>> >>>>> This
>> >>>>> is where so many in the Gay community are mistaken.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The military will boot out a service member who is an admitted
>> >>>>> adulterer. Service members who are into any type of
>> >>>>> sado-masochistic activities and make them public will be summarily
>> >>>>> discharged. Those service members who are into "swinging" and have
>> >>>>> multiple
>> >>>>> sexual partners, and who make that aspect of their lives public,
>> >>>>> will
>> >>>>> be
>> >>>>> shown the door and discharged. All branches of the service will
>> not
>> >>>>> condone any member who bases his or her lifestyle upon their sexual
>> >>>>> identiy.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Nothng has changed.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Just as important, the military does in fact have and embrace a
>> "Macho"
>> >>>>> image. This is requisite for combat. Yes, there are women in the
>> >>>>> service
>> >>>>> but not in combat arms. The lifestyle is tough, rugged and most of
>> the
>> >>>>> time
>> >>>>> uncomfortable. The stereotypical Gay male will not be condoned. The
>> >>>>> combat
>> >>>>> units of the Army and Marines are all male and all the males talk
>> about
>> >>>>> doing their girl friends as they charge the enemy with cigars
>> >>>>> hanging
>> >>>>> out
>> >>>>> their mouths; not penises. This is the image that our military
>> >>>>> cultivates. It is good for morale, it is good for unit
>> >>>>> cohesiveness,
>> >>>>> and
>> >>>>> most importantly, it is but one component of what makes our military
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> mightiest in the world. Again, this image is not going to change.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> >>>>> which is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical
>> >>>>> media,
>> >>>>> and discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled
>> past!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> >>>>> which is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical
>> >>>>> media,
>> >>>>> and discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled
>> past!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> >>>> which
>> >>>> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media,
>> >>>> and
>> >>>> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> - wayne.
>> >>>
>> >>> goto> http://waynes-nude-musicians.blogspot.com/
>> >>> http://blueguitar.tumblr.com/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> which
>> >>> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media,
>> and
>> >>> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past!
>> >>>
>> >>> For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> >>> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> which
>> >> is the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media,
>> and
>> >> discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past!
>> >>
>> >> For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> >> http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Thanks for participating in the Google Group, Historical Pictorial,
>> > which
>> is
>> > the premiere men's forum on the web; focusing on historical media, and
>> > discussions of contemporary issues as well as our chronicled past!
>> >
>> > For options and help, please visit the group at:
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/Historical-Pictoral
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>> Have a great day,
>> Tommy
>>
>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>
>> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark M. Kahle H.
>
> --
> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> * Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
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--
Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
Have a great day,
Tommy
--
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