By your logic, heterosexuals have no right to parade their wife or girlfriend, husband or boyfriend out.
You clearly think that gays are unequal second class citizens who need to hide in the closet.
By tour logic, there should also be no heterosexual womanizing, no dating or looking, no hand holding heterosexual kissing, or male-female touching in public allowed. Certainly no sex of any kind.
Perhaps all romance all marriage and all love should be outlawed, and no public affection of any kind by anyone should be permitted.
No "adffectionate friends" of any gender.
No, your logic is one sided and twisted. All men and women are created equal and must be afforded equal rights.
On 10/4/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:
Good Morning Tom!I don't think anyone would dispute that this young man's suicide is troubling, and that there is no excuse whatsoever with regard to these two young people's actions, for: (1) The illicit stealth filming of the young man's romantic encounter; and, (2) Posting the video on the web, without authorization.Having said that, you bring up some interesting, and downright troubling allegations, some of which Mark, Jonathan, Dick, (I started "drafting" this response yesterday, and just now got back to it...Dinner At Moe's is right on the mark!!) have addressed.First, for anyone to take their own life demonstrates that they are/were mentally unbalanced in the first place. By no means am I condoning the bullying by the couple who filmed this kid, but I don't see how they can be solely blamed for this kid taking his own life.Second, I just don't get the, "societal homophobia" claim. I don't know how it is that you (or others) would propose that we regulate people's actions to stop what you perceive as "societal homophobia.I know that there are some folks who are looking for a reason to categorize or single out individuals, but in general, most people don't do this. We don't give a crap who it is that you choose to hop in the sack with, as long as it is not paraded in front of us!By the same token, and in the same breath, "Gay Rights" does not give you, or anyone the "right" or the ability to parade your "choices", or your "lifestyle" out in public. I don't want to know who it is that you sleep with....I don't want to know what it is that you do behind closed doors. I don't want to know what anyone is doing behind closed doors!!! This applies to straight, Gay, confused, whoever, but we just don't need to know!The fact that many in the Gay community have nothing else to rest their laurels upon; e.g; the only thing that they seem to be able to discuss, or to focus upon, is their sexuality, is also troubling, and is but one example of how shallow some of these individuals really are!I cannot think of any straight person who depends solely upon who they like to have sex with, as the basis for their political beliefs, their choices in vacations, work, where they would choose to eat dinner, etc., etc., etc. This seems to be the case with many in the Gay community. All they can focus upon is their, "Gayness". Frankly, I am tired of it.I dunno where I am going with this....I only know that I am one of the most staunchest defenders of equal rights. There comes a time however, when certain groups seem to want, "more rights"; they want additional privileges and protections than what the rest of Americans enjoy. I am just as adamant about being opposed to such privileges.--
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 8:16 PM, Jonathan Ashley <jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:
Since you want to blame everything on "depression" let us look at that.
DEPRESSION, n.
4. A sinking of the spirits; dejection; a state of sadness; want of courage or animation; as depression of the mind.
I don't see how any of this is "pretzel logic."
It is not the fault of the bully or the bigot that individuals have no self worth. If you are being bullied, then get a bunch of your friends together and beat the crap out of the bully. Maybe then he'll stop being a bully.
On 10/1/2010 4:30 PM, Tommy News wrote:Your twisted pretzel logic does not pass muster.You fail to see that depression is often triggered by the acts of others, such as bullies and abusive homophobic taunters.Suicide is caused by many factors.
Hatred, bullies, and bigotry are also caused by many factors.
On 10/1/10, Jonathan Ashley <jonathanashleyii@lavabit.com> wrote:--SUICIDE, n. [L. suicidium; se and coedo, to slay.]
1. Self-murder; the act of designedly destroying one's own life.
By definition, one cannot cause someone else to commit "self-murder." If someone else can be factually proven to be at fault, then that individual would be guilty of murder.
Has the individual who took the video been arrested for murder? If not, you are jousting at windmills.
On 10/1/2010 1:08 PM, Tommy News wrote:Ignorant homophobes like you cause these suicides.Tommy --
On 10/1/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:No Tommy, it is not. The urge to destroy oneself is as ancient as life itself. There are so very many reasons people do this to themselves, both real and unreal reasons. There is however ONE reason ALL suicides do this.... they are too weak to cope and that, Sir, is a personal problem. It is NOT societal, and NOT something that can be legislated that causes me to lose the freedom to ask if someone is Gay or Lesbian (for whatever reason) or to call someone a flaming Queen if they are acting like one.
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 1:05 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
Markie, Markie, Markie.Your ugly negativity and snarky spin is most perverse.One suicide is one too many.
No man is an island
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man's death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
-John Donne
On 10/1/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:--Tommy, Tommy, Tommy,
He must have had a really poor self image... short of that nothing could "Make" him commit suicide. Suicide IS against the law, isn't it ??
So you are basically saying "Mommy, Mommy, he made me do it !!"
Not much of a defense when prejudice of one kind or another exists in EVERY walk of life.
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
This is not one isolated incident. The problem of homophobia is societal and must be eradicated.This week , I heard about 3 – THREE – other young gay men murdered by homophobia in America.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/victim-secret-dorm-sex-tape-commits-suicide/story?id=11758716
--On 10/1/10, nominal9 <nominal9@yahoo.com> wrote:I think the issue here is that someone shot and distributed the images
against the suicide victim's will....
Plus, the victim was relatively young... eighteen....Gay or not....
that's a lot for a young person to handle.....
nominal9
On Oct 1, 12:09 pm, Mark <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Just exactly what was he ashamed of ??? Being gay ?? How do you know ??
> He's certainly not talking.*
> *
> *
> *Further, if one is going to do or be involved in something that they find
> THAT shameful maybe they should rethink their own position first rather than
> legislate an entire populace for a personal error.*
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 9:50 AM, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > *Your twisted pretzel logic is, as usual, illogical.*
> > **
> > *This talented young man would still be alive if it were not for the
> > horrible shame he felt after this secret video was posted on the internet by
> > his straight roomate.*
>
> > On 10/1/10, dick thompson <rhomp2...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >> I guess every time a gay guy comits suicide it is always a societal
> >> homophobia, never anything else. And every time anyone kids a gay guy then
> >> it is homophobia, never anything else. The people who filmed him should
> >> pay for this big time but your thoughts on exactly why he took his own life
> >> are open to question. People do things for reasons other than homophobia,
> >> you know. The world does not revolve for the reasons you think it does and
> >> the world does not sit there waiting for Tommy News do determine if it was
> >> homophobia or not. You seem to think that if a gay guy does not get a job
> >> he applied for it has to be because of homophobia, not that someone better
> >> applied also.
>
> >> On 10/01/2010 11:19 AM, Tommy News wrote:
>
> >> *Do you think Tyler Clementi would have taken his own life if he had
> >> been filmed in a private romantic encounter with a girl?*
> >> *Think about why he took his life, why he did it. *
> >> * In addition, Think about why his straight roommate secretly filmed the
> >> encounter and broadcast it on the Internet.
> >> *
> >> *The problem is societal homophobia, which causes deep shame, ridicule,
> >> harm, and persecution of gays.*
>
> >> *Think, I know you can!*
>
> >> On 10/1/10, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Tommy,
>
> >>> One may first want to ask exactly what was so embarrassing and
> >>> repugnant on the tape that the young man was willing to take his own
> >>> life and why it was so to him.
>
> >>> That which made him jump came from within his own mind.
>
> >>> Since when is it governments job to legislate fortitude and love of
> >>> ones self ???
>
> >>> On Sep 30, 6:23 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> > *Take Action: Send A No More Suicides Letter to President Obama and
> >>> Congress
> >>> > *
> >>> > *Tell them to introduce and pass The American Equality Bill, to amend
> >>> the
> >>> > Civil Rights Act of 1964 to include sexual orientation and gender
> >>> identity.*
> >>> > **
> >>> > <
> >>>http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/30/suicide-and-the-internet/>
> >>> > Tyler Clementi Jumped off the George Washington Bridge in New York
> >>> after his
> >>> > same-sex romantic encounter was secretly filmed and posted on the
> >>> internet
> >>> > by his college roomate. At least three other youths have killed
> >>> themselves
> >>> > due to homophobic bullying. Stop The Hate!
>
> >>> > From our friend Tif:
>
> >>> > -- THE LETTER BELOW WAS WRITTEN by Jonathan W, of Brooklyn, NY and
> >>> really
> >>> > captures the heart of the matter it seems.
>
> >>> > Please SEND IT as a comment to the White House at:
>
> >>> >http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
> >>> > ...
> >>> > And LET THEM HEAR US SAY:
>
> >>> > *** Mr. President PLEASE SPEAK OUT LOUDLY about homophobia, school
> >>> bullying
> >>> > and equal civil rights for LGBTQ people -- no more suicide letters. ***
>
> >>> > To President Obama,
> >>> > All of us are horrified by the tragedy of Tyler Clementi, the young man
> >>> who
> >>> > committed suicide after his sexual encounter with another man was
> >>> posted on
> >>> > the internet. We share anger and disgust at the 2 students accused of
> >>> this
> >>> > despicable act. But if our outrage stops there, we will be doing a
> >>> grave
> >>> > disservice to the millions of young gay men and women in this country
> >>> who
> >>> > live with shame and fear everyday and who have a 4 times greater risk
> >>> of
> >>> > suicide than their straight counterparts.
> >>> > Most people would be embarrassed and angered at having their private
> >>> sexual
> >>> > acts secretly recorded and posted on the internet, but it seems
> >>> unlikely
> >>> > that Mr. Clementi would have been driven to suicide if this had been a
> >>> > heterosexual encounter. A young heterosexual man would not likely
> >>> experience
> >>> > the shame and fear that Mr. Clementi must have felt.
> >>> > Yes, the 2 students accused of this crime must be held accountable for
> >>> their
> >>> > actions, but as a society we must all share responsibility for creating
> >>> an
> >>> > environment that drives young gay people to suicide. This country has
> >>> come a
> >>> > long way toward acceptance of gay people in the last few decades, but
> >>> we
> >>> > still have a long way to go. Young gay people still face bullying and
> >>> abuse
> >>> > at home and at school; many experience ostracism by family and friends;
> >>> > discrimination in school, work, housing and social services; and
> >>> isolation
> >>> > from supportive communities of peers, as well as anti-gay violence in
> >>> public
> >>> > and private. It's no wonder that the shame and fear of 'coming out' can
> >>> be
> >>> > fatal.
> >>> > In the cyber world we now live in, there will undoubtedly be more cases
> >>> of
> >>> > invasions of privacy on the internet. They can be punished, but not
> >>> > prevented. It is up to all of us in this society to make sure that
> >>> young gay
> >>> > people feel safe, secure and accepted, so that shame and fear never
> >>> again
> >>> > result in death.
>
> >>> > Sincerely,
>
> >>> --
> >>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> >>> For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> >>> * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>
> >>> * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> >>> * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>
> >> --
> >> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
> >> Have a great day,
> >> Tommy --
> >> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> >> For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> >> * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/<http://www.politicalforum.com/>
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> >> --
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>
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>
> > --
> > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
> > Have a great day,
> > Tommy
>
> > --
> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> > For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> > * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.
>
> --
> Mark M. Kahle H.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--
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Government is only as strong as those who allow themselves to be governed are weak.
"The 'art' of politics is diverting attention from what's really happening. What
separates politicians from other criminal organizations is superior public relations."
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