Mark-
Quite false.
There are many countries that have legalized marriage equality, such as our neighbors Canada and Mexico, to name two. The USA is pre-historic, and far behind the times in this regard.
Some states, such as New York, recognize marriages perfomed in other states and in other countries.
Your twisted pretzel logic is at best illogical.
On 10/13/10, Mark <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
Tommy,
Please try to understand that any law that can have an effect outside the borders of the US MUST be in compliance with any and all international covenants as well. Gays, when "Married" in the US will NOT maintain those rights when travelling, Contracts signed or inheritances due by that same "Marriage" will NOT be honored or even considered... The California "Civil Union Law" was accepted in the world... A Gay marriage Act will NEVER be accepted outside the borders.
Please try to think before you act.... there are ramifications far beyond those you have considered. Such as simple checking accounts, credit card accounts, equipment guarantees, travel rights, etc. that all depend on the laws of a second nations good will.--
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
False.Civil marriage, as codified by the state, has nothing whatsoever to do with religious marriage.One can be married by a judge, a mayor, a town clerk, a justice, or a sea captain without religion invoved.As long as the government codifies civil marriage, all people must be included in those laws equally, regardless of gender. Anything less is discriminatory.Churches are then free to bless those civil marriage contracts or not, as they choose. There are plenty of Progressive churches that will.
--
On 10/13/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:Tom,I am quite familiar with the general principals of contract law.What you just wrote is far left (George Soros based) spin, and has no basis in logic, fact, or truth. I can call an Agreement to Sell Two Cows, a "Contract Between Farmer John & Farmer Brown To Sell Two Cows", or I can call it, "Personal Guaranty Of Bovine Between Breeder John & Homesteader Brown". The result is the same.The distinction here, as we have discussed numerous times, (and I am not going to get into this subject matter again today, you can read my thoughts on it here) :Plain and simple: Marriage is an ecclesiastical function, between a man and a woman, period.
On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
Keith-As an attorney, you should know something about contracts.Civil unions and domestic partnerships are lesser, unequal contracts than Civil Marriage contracts, and do not afford the same equal rights and benefits as Civil Marriage contracts.What these do is create a class of lesser, unequal second class citizens, and that is not acceptable.As long as the government codifies civil marriage, all people must be included in those laws equally, regardless of gender. Anything less is discriminatory and conveys animus, as Judge Walker Vaughn so eloquently ruled in California.
--On 10/13/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:"Gay Marriage Equality" does not equal "Equal Rights".As I have pointed out on numerous occasions, the "Gay Marriage" bill in California was ANYTHING BUT about equal rights. California has an equal, "civil union" law on its books, and had it at the time that Proposition 8 was defeated by the majority of Californians. The Domestic Partner law granted every right to a homosexual couple, that a man and a woman joined in matrimony has. Check it out:
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=fam&group=00001-01000&file=297-297.5
This issue doesn't have anything to do with equal rights. It has to do with those far left extremists who are pushing a secularist agenda. Mr. Paladino has said that he will not support such Anti-American policy.On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 10:15 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
No.No. Civil rights matters should never be placed on the ballot, for the majority almost always votes against the minority.All thirty two states that placed marriage equality on the ballot voted to outlaw it.Paladino is a dangerous, angry bigot, and is wrong. He said:"I just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family, and I don't want them brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option," he said. "It isn't."
Paladino vowed that as governor he would veto any bill legalizing gay marriage or civil unions.
--On 10/13/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 9:21 AM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:This is some of what Paladino has said, and all of it is offensive. If you agree that pro-gay legislation should be vetoed, as Paladino has vowed to do if elected, then you are as anti-gay and homophobic as Paladino is.====KeithInTampa says:Tom, as you know, I am an attorney, and I have personally been involved in the representation and defense of a number of individuals whose civil rights were violated because of their sexual orientation. I am a champion for equal rights. Let's review Mr. Paladino's statements:===========I quote:Paladino told the Jewish leaders in Brooklyn that he didn't march in "the gay parade this year -- the gay pride parade," while Cuomo did.==========KeithInTampa Responds:This makes him a Homophobe, because he refused to march in one of these Gay Parades? I will take it a step further. Until such time as the Gay community cleans up its act, I would ban such parades on public streets! It is one thing to have a parade that is adult oriented, like here in Tampa, where we have a parade in Ybor City called "Guavaween"; and it is an adult oriented theme. It is held at night, and in a district that is strictly for adults. This is not the case with the Gay Parades being held in a number of communities, including Disney World! These parades are the epitome of raunch, and are held in front of children! It might be only two or three percent of the participants, but until such time as this is policed, by the Gay community, as a Governor, I would not participate, nor would I condone or allow such activities in broad daylight, on public, downtown streets, where kids and families have no choice but to view such divergent behavior.=============="That's not the example we should be showing our children, and certainly not in our schools" he said.================KeithIn Tampa chimes in:Once again, agreed. I think most Americans would agree.============="And don't misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way. That would be a dastardly lie. My approach is live and let live," he said."I just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family, and I don't want them brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option," he said. "It isn't."=============KeithInTampa Points Out:Paladino went on to say about that particular last remark: ""I'm talking about young children. Young children should not be exposed to that at a young age, they don't understand it."
Further, I think even you, and all homosexuals will agree with this last statement by Mr. Paladino. As you have pointed out over the last few weeks, the suicide rate for Gay teens is higher than it is for straight teens. Most of the Gay men that I have met and know personally, have described horrific guilt growing up, and a hard time coming to the realization that they are somehow different than their straight, heterosexual counterparts.I don't know how many times I have heard it, but more than a handful: "I was born this way, and no one would choose to be Gay".Equal protection under the law, and equal rights; the right to have a happy, productive lifestyle, does not include recruitment or glamorization of that lifestyle. In this case, with what many consider to be "Gay lifestyle"; that many in this Nation believe is immoral and preverse.====================Paladino vowed that as governor he would veto any bill legalizing gay marriage or civil unions.====================Mr. Paladino said that if the same measure passed in a statewide referendum, he would uphold the law.You, and several pro-Quomo news organizations left out some of Mr. Paladino's comments. here are a couple of more:"It's a very, very ugly experience for those that are discriminated against, it's terrible, and it shouldn't be. Our society should be more accepting," said Paladino, who had earlier in the interview referenced his gay nephew, who he said has suffered such discrimination.
"We need our elected officials to be leaders on diversity, not urging second-class citizenship for some groups of people,"Hardly a Homophobe Tommy. He might not be the candidate that you support, but to brand Mr. Paladino a Homophobe, is clearly hate, smear and typical antics that I reference frequently, that you and a host of far left extremists practice.You Sir, are the one that owes the apology to Mr. Paladino, for branding him a Homophobe!
--On 10/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com> wrote:Good Evening Tom,You, nor anyone else that I have seen you post articles from, has identified what specifically it is that you, (or they) find offensive that Mr. Paladino purportedly said. Mr. Paladino.Mr. Paladino said emphatically that he believed in equal rights for all individuals, but he doesn't think young children should be exposed to homosexual promiscuity, such as Gay Day Parades.I've seen nothing that could even be remotely construed as homophobic, and for the most part, I agree with Mr. Paladino! Young children should not be exposed to ANY adult sexual promiscuity, and especially a bunch of Gays parading around in assless chaps, boas, or dressed up like a nekkid Statute of Liberty!
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:03 PM, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
Have so.
--
On 10/12/10, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:
You STILL have provided no CONTEXT ...
Regard$,
--MJ
Of course. What else can one do if one must
serve the people? If one must live for others?
Either pander to everybody's wishes and be
called corrupt; or impose on everybody by force
your own idea of everybody's good. Can you think
of any other way? -- Gail Wynand
At 07:32 PM 10/12/2010, you wrote:Paladino told the Jewish leaders in Brooklyn that he didn't march in "the gay parade this year -- the gay pride parade," while Cuomo did.--
"That's not the example we should be showing our children, and certainly not in our schools" he said.
"And don't misquote me as wanting to hurt homosexual people in any way. That would be a dastardly lie. My approach is live and let live," he said.
"I just think my children and your children would be much better off and much more successful getting married and raising a family, and I don't want them brainwashed into thinking that homosexuality is an equally valid and successful option," he said. "It isn't."
Paladino vowed that as governor he would veto any bill legalizing gay marriage or civil unions.
In other words, Paladino said that it is bad. He is unfit to be Governor.
On 10/12/10, droblaw@comcast.net <droblaw@comcast.net> wrote:
- Where did he say it was bad? The dispusting aspect was men gyrating into each other which I'm sure if heterosexuals were doing the same thing would be disgusting and inappropriate to expose to children. What I get from your responses is a hpyer-sensitivity and a feeling of being singled out.
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: "Tommy News" <tommysnews@gmail.com>
- To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com
- Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:35:22 PM
- Subject: Re: GOP parade of horribles: Carl Paladino
- Wrong.
- Teaching children that homosexuals are bad and pride parades are "disgusting"
- is not reasonable parenting. Far from it.
- On 10/12/10, droblaw@comcast.net <droblaw@comcast.net> wrote:
- I'm missing the hate speech. He did what any reasonable parent would do.
- ----- Original Message -----
- From: "Tommy News" <tommysnews@gmail.com>
- To: politicalforum@googlegroups.com
- Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2010 3:25:35 PM
- Subject: Re: GOP parade of horribles: Carl Paladino
- Of course Paladino stands by his hate filled gibberish! And of course his attitude is a distraction! And the next victim of violence because he/she is suspected to be gay should be credited to THIS millionaire out of touch eletist creep. Anderson Cooper did an awesome report Sunday on the fact that HATE SPEECH incites violence, bullying, harassment, assaults, and suicides. Apparently Paladino doesn't care. He is blinded by his own prejudice.
- On 10/12/10, Tommy News <tommysnews@gmail.com> wrote:
- Again, Democrats are not Marxists, Sucialists, or Communists. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat again.
- And you are wrong again. Paladino said horrible, homophobic, disgusting hateful things,
- and he sent out pornographic mysogynist and racist emails. This angry hypocrytical jerk is unfit to be Governor of New York.
- Vote for Andrew Cuomo!
- On 10/12/10, Keith In Tampa <keithintampa@gmail.com > wrote:
- Just as curious, how did (purportedly "windbag bigot") Republican Gubenatorial Candidate Paladino "contribute to an atmosphere anti-gay prejudice"?
- More hate, smear, nastiness from the far left, when Paladino said nothing of the sort, made no derogatory comments, and said nothing of the kind.
- Again, far left hate, smear and a Marxist agenda, perpetrated by Tom.
- I heard Paladino's comments. Far from anthing described by the hateful left.
- On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 2:23 PM, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
- """""A rash of Gay suicides"""""" ??
- Where is the proof that there are any more now than there ever were ??
- On Oct 12, 12:16 pm, Tommy News <tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
- > GOP parade of horribles: Carl Paladino
- >
- > Today's editorial< http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/11/AR201.. .>pretty
- > much expresses my views on the rash of suicides of gay youth, the
- > awful sexual torture of three gay men in New York and how windbag bigots
- > like Republican candidate for New York governor Carl Paladino contribute to
- > an atmosphere anti-gay prejudice. As the piece says, those wallowing in such
- > ignorance provide "the hurtful slurs that eat away at the self-esteem of
- > those who are gay or lesbian" and make "someone feel it's okay to verbally
- > and physically harass, maim or even kill."
- >
- > But Paladino said something in his "Today Show" interview with Matt Lauer
- > that needs to be highlighted for its pot-calling-the-kettle-black quality.
- > Paladino hammered his Democratic opponent, New York State Attorney General
- > Andrew Cuomo, for taking his daughters to the gay pride parade in New York
- > City, a must-attend event for serious candidates for citywide and statewide
- > public office. "I don't think it's proper for them to go there and watch a
- > couple of grown men grind against each other," Paladino said with an air of
- > moral indignation. "I don't think it's proper. I think it's disgusting."
- >
- > Paladino knows "disgusting." He's a practiced peddler of
- > filth< http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/tea_party_gov_candi.. .>.
- > Back in April I
- > wrote< http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/04/carl_paladino_i.. .>that
- > he had a "penchant for forwarding e-mails that feature naked women,
- > bestiality, the N-word and racist depictions of blacks in general and the
- > president and first lady of the United States in particular." If you want to
- > see for yourself how base and "disgusting" the Buffalo millionaire's sense
- > of humor is click on this link < http://wnymedia.net/paladino/>.
- >
- > Blame Republican primary voters for unleashing Paladino on the Empire State.
- > But given his troubling
- > past< http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/09/carl_paladino_i.. .>and
- > erratic and disturbing present he has a lot of nerve thinking he
- > should
- > be New York's next governor. As Brian Ellner of New Yorkers for Marriage
- > Equality succinctly put it me yesterday, Paladino is "Out of touch, out of
- > his mind, should be out of the race."
- > More: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/11/AR201. ..
- >
- > --
- > Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
- > Have a great day,
- > Tommy
- --
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