cover these new eventualities. The existing military code of conduct
would kick all gays out if found with no exception. That was the
reason for the DADT in the first place, to allow gays who were not
flaming to serve.
On 12/12/2010 07:23 PM, Tommy News wrote:
> No that is false.
>
> The existing Military Code of Conduct, which applies to all troops,
> will be more than adequate. Remember that there are many gays in the
> military already, and most of them are fine, well behaved soldiers.
>
> There will little negative fallout, except from a few blatant
> homophobes who will likely escalate their violent attacks upon gays,
> and a very few who may leave the service and who are probably unfit to
> serve anyway.
>
> On 12/12/10, dick thompson<rhomp2002@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> You will have to do a lot more justifying to reach those conclusions.
>> After all the military readiness has nothing to do with the individual
>> rights but with the readiness of a group. That people's lives might be
>> ruined if they do not meet the requirements of the law is regrettable
>> but necessary to fulfill the mission of the military which is to protect
>> the nation. The law spells out the requirements and it is up to the
>> various members of the military to meet those requirements. If they
>> fail to after knowing the requirements then that is regrettable as I
>> said. In most cases that is the fault of the individual. Granted that
>> the law could have been repealed and probably should have been if the
>> individual soldier still meets the requirements of the military which is
>> to protect the nation and not endanger the rest of the group. How do
>> you see that it cost millions and harmed military readiness? Both
>> things are dependent on the individual meeting the law. If they don't
>> then it is the individual, not the law, that is at fault.
>>
>> The other part is that the military must have time to plan for
>> implementing the repeal of the DADT. Just passing the repeal is not
>> enough. You also have to handle the rest of the laws the intersect with
>> DADT and deal with those who then fall foul of the new policies. How do
>> you deal with them. Do you just change from kicking out gays who make
>> fools of themselves to kicking out people who have problems with dealing
>> with gays who make fools of themselves? How do you handle gays who come
>> onto their fellow soldiers (and you can take it to the bank that that
>> will happen) and guys who beat down gays who come onto them? There has
>> to be a balance. Assless chaps cannot be the uniform of the day. How
>> do you deal with transvestism. The military wear uniforms on duty.
>>
>> What is needed is a repeal of DADT and at the same time an SOP manual
>> for how to deal with the fallout of the repeal both ready for
>> implementation and with the appropriate executive support from the
>> Pentagon and the local military leadership. I have seen them try to
>> sneak through the repeal by tying it to a bunch of other legislation
>> which does not fit. Same with the rest of the attachments put together
>> by Dingy Harry Reid. If it is that vital then it deserves to stand on
>> its own and be voted up or down on its own. It also needs adequate
>> rules and regulations in place to see that it can be implemented without
>> endangering the primary mission of the military, something that has not
>> been true so far.
>>
>> On 12/12/2010 03:15 PM, Tommy News wrote:
>>> I stand corrected. I am correct that the discriminatory DADT
>>> "compromise" brokered by Colin Powell and codified by the Congress in
>>> a bi-partisan fashion, failed, has ruined thousands of lives and
>>> careers, harmed military readiness, cost millions, and must be
>>> repealed.
>>>
>>> On 12/12/10, dick thompson<rhomp2002@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> You are wrong. DADT was codified under a Dem Congress, a Dem Senate and
>>>> signed by a Dem President. Newt Gingrich did not take over until 1995
>>>> after the Dems lost the election in Nov 1994 in large part due to
>>>> Hillary and the Hillarycare project that was so badly mismanaged.
>>>>
>>>> On 12/12/2010 02:58 PM, Tommy News wrote:
>>>>> I believe DADT was codified by the Congress under Newt Gingrich.
>>>>> President Clinton agreed to the compromise, brokered by Colin Powell
>>>>> whio sent me a letter abourt it at that time. Clinton later said DADT
>>>>> was a mistake, as the discriminatory policy failed.
>>>>>
>>>>> President Obama, who now wears a flag pin, and has since the campaign,
>>>>> is not a Muslim, and even if he were, there would be nothing wrong
>>>>> with that.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are clearly an un-American Islamophobic believer of false Reich
>>>>> wing GOP smear and hate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 12/11/10, THE ANNOINTED ONE<markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Tommy,
>>>>>> DADT was made by executive order and can only be killed by executive
>>>>>> order or the courts. It has been killed, Obama is fighting it.... Why
>>>>>> would he do that ?? Only one reason I can think of... Muslim grade
>>>>>> school, Muslim dads (both), bows to muslim leaders, Recites the Koran,
>>>>>> doesa not wear US Flag lapel, does not salute the US flag, was a
>>>>>> member of Reverend Wrights "christian" church where he admits half the
>>>>>> members are indeed moslim....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Add all the above FACTS to the way Muslims feel about Gays and tell me
>>>>>> why he would SUE to keep DADT active when all it takes to end it is
>>>>>> HIS signature... NO VOTE NEEDED.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Dec 11, 11:36 am, Tommy News<tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Well I disagree with part of that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> President Obama wants DADT and DOMA repealed, but he wants the
>>>>>>> legislature to do it. He has said "Send me a bill".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Department Of Justice is obliged to uphold existing laws, even
>>>>>>> those the Administration disagrees with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 12/11/10, GregfromBoston<greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thats neither my job nor perogative.
>>>>>>>> We OBVIOUSLY disagree ideologically/philisophically/any ogically.
>>>>>>>> THATS the reason I come here. If i want people to agree with me, I
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> to FreeReblica, and I don't
>>>>>>>> We have had sprirted debates for sure, but I don't we've ended up in
>>>>>>>> blind insults
>>>>>>>> (If I have, I'm sorry - If you have so should be you)
>>>>>>>> Here it is, ok?
>>>>>>>> Congress has proven INCREDIBLY inept at getting rid of DADT. Blame
>>>>>>>> GOP or Dems, I don't care! The judicial branch HAS killed it, and if
>>>>>>>> not for a DOJ challenge, it would be 3 months dead - end of story,
>>>>>>>> Fuck congress, lets move on.
>>>>>>>> Its a kiss. A gift. STOP! Politics is over. The Judicial Branch
>>>>>>>> ruled it UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
>>>>>>>> It don't get more binding than that. WTF happens if Obama takes this
>>>>>>>> to SCOTUS, and the CONSERVATIVES uphold Virginia Philips' ruling.
>>>>>>>> We're talking more egg on faces than Omelettes for America, (Europe,
>>>>>>>> Asia, Africa...)
>>>>>>>> Why challenge a case you believe is RIGHT???
>>>>>>>> As PROVEN, no, there is NO obligation to do so. Judicial checks are
>>>>>>>> equal to the other 2.
>>>>>>>> Oh, and I thing DOMA is WORSE!
>>>>>>>> And yet here is Obama fighting for THAT too!
>>>>>>>> Point: Gay rights being left v right is BULLSHIT! Look at the LEFT!
>>>>>>>> God bless, mate, and keep up the banter.
>>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 10:45 am, Tommy News<tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thank you Greg.
>>>>>>>>> You are more Progressive than I had realized.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps you can teach Keith and others a thing or two.
>>>>>>>>> On 12/11/10, GregfromBoston<greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Get ready Tommy. . .
>>>>>>>>>> I couldn't agree more!
>>>>>>>>>> Please realize that I am adamently against both DADT and DOMA.
>>>>>>>>>> I am simply saying that neither POTUS, nor anyone else needs
>>>>>>>>>> congress
>>>>>>>>>> to end DADT (and the ban). The judicial branch has already done
>>>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>>>> 3 equal branches. This is the judicial check. Roll with it!
>>>>>>>>>> Probably the musician in me (and there's a lot of that in me)
>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 11, 10:27 am, Tommy News<tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Tiny Keithie Keith Keithie-
>>>>>>>>>>> You have a dirty, offensive mind.
>>>>>>>>>>> You are Wrong again, again, and yet again.
>>>>>>>>>>> I do not have hate, lies and smear as you falsely and slanderously
>>>>>>>>>>> state and insult me over and over and over again.
>>>>>>>>>>> This explanation put forth demonstrates your misguided
>>>>>>>>>>> misconceptions
>>>>>>>>>>> and your blatant homophobia even further. Your thinking is not at
>>>>>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>>> cognitive, it is deeply prejudiced.
>>>>>>>>>>> Most gays do not put their sexuality at the forefront of their
>>>>>>>>>>> lives.
>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, most choose to hide and surpress their sexuality, and
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> very essense, due to homophobia, opression, and persecution. While
>>>>>>>>>>> heterosexuals go around talking about their romantic encounters,
>>>>>>>>>>> relationsips, and crushes etc, ad nauseum.
>>>>>>>>>>> Many gays are chaste and even celebate, and most certainly do NOT
>>>>>>>>>>> flaunt their sexuality or dress in a flamboyant manner. Many look
>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary and conservative than most heterosexuals. There are a
>>>>>>>>>>> few,
>>>>>>>>>>> but there are many heterosexuals who have flamboyant deress and
>>>>>>>>>>> behavior, and unusual sexualities and kinkly fetishes. Pinning
>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>> behaviors soley on a few gays is unfair and false.
>>>>>>>>>>> Your mischaracterizations, stereotyping, typecasting, and mind in
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> gutter demonstrates your deep prejudice and homophobia.
>>>>>>>>>>> You, Keith, are a judgemental prejudiced homophobic bigot.
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, you are.
>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/10/10, Keith In Tampa<keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lil' TommyTomTom,
>>>>>>>>>>>> This is where your hate, lies and smear get in the way of your
>>>>>>>>>>>> cognitive
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Because I am opposed to those individuals who put what they do in
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> bedroom at the forefront of their lives; in other words,
>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>> opposed to those individuals that define their very existence by
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> sexuality, this does not make me a "Homophobe".
>>>>>>>>>>>> What you do behind closed doors might be wonderful. I don't
>>>>>>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>>> never know. I don't care what it is that you do sexually.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am opposed to those militants who are attempting to force their
>>>>>>>>>>>> sexuality
>>>>>>>>>>>> upon me, and the rest of America. I am opposed to parades in
>>>>>>>>>>>> front
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> children with you donned in assless chaps, boas, and/or dressed
>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Statute of Liberty. I am opposed to you, and any other group or
>>>>>>>>>>>> entity
>>>>>>>>>>>> demanding more rights than what the rest of Americans enjoy,
>>>>>>>>>>>> because
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> who
>>>>>>>>>>>> you sleep with.
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are correct, that there have been Gays in our United States
>>>>>>>>>>>> military
>>>>>>>>>>>> since 1776. None of them chose to get out and parade around,
>>>>>>>>>>>> announcing
>>>>>>>>>>>> who it is that they are boffing or honking on. This is how it
>>>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>>>>>>> KeithInDC
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Tommy News
>>>>>>>>>>>> <tommysn...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wrong again Keith.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your homophobia is showing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gays have been serving in the military, well, since before
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexander
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The Great and his lover Hephaesteon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The existing military code of conduct shoold be adequate for any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> behavior issues from a very few.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> By your logic, heterosexuals should be banned from the military
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> well due to criminals like Dubya, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rove,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> variuus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> felons, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please also note that Military Enlistment of Felons Doubled
>>>>>>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bush Administration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.palmcenter.org/press/dadt/releases/military_enlistment_of_...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Top Ten American War
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Criminals Living
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Freely Today
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rense Exclusive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> By Douglas Herman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 12-14-5
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A war crime is a punishable offense, under international law,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> violations of the law of war by any person or persons, military
>>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> civilian. Every violation of the law of war is a war crime.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> war
>>>>>>>>>>>>> crimes are those committed during wartime in violation of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> international conventions intended to protect civilian
>>>>>>>>>>>>> populations
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> prisoners of war. You will note that many on this list,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> categorized
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>>>> war criminals, ironically, are among the most powerful and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wealthy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> citizens
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert McNamara. Former US Secretary of Defense, helped kill
>>>>>>>>>>>>> approximately 2-3 million, mostly poor Vietnamese, Cambodians
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laotians. Not to mention a sizeable portion of the 58,000 dead
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> servicemen pressed into that war. Not to mention that equal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US veterans who committed suicide in the years to follow.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> McNamara
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> an Elder Statesman now, walking around freely today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Henry Kissinger. Former US Secretary of State, had a hand in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> killings mentioned above. Plus condoned thousands of additional
>>>>>>>>>>>>> killings in Chile, under the sponsorship of US foreign policy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Won
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts. Elder Statesman, walking
>>>>>>>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freely today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> George HW Bush. Former super spy, former US President, the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> graduate from the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) into the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidency and bring lessons learned at CIA headquarters
>>>>>>>>>>>>> directly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US policy. While serving under Ronald Reagan, helped encourage
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Iraq-Iran war, resulting in deaths of one million people,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> allowing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> oil and arms dealers to profit greatly. During the 'Eighties,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> helped
>>>>>>>>>>>>> encourage US sponsored military dictators in Latin America,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> guilty
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> extermination of thousands of ordinary citizens, via US-trained
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "death
>>>>>>>>>>>>> squads." Conducted pre-emptive war with Panama, resulting in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1,000-4,000 deaths, simply to topple former CIA henchman and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> drug
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lord, Manuel Noriega. Elder Statesman, walking around freely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> basking in limelight.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> George W. Bush. Two term US president, elected using electronic,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "black box" voting methods that permit no verification of actual
>>>>>>>>>>>>> vote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> count. Conducted two pre-emptive wars, resulting in excess of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 100,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>> US. Iraqi and Afghani deaths. Condones the use of torture as US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> policy. Condones rejection of the Geneva Convention, becoming
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> first US president to openly do so. Considers the US
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Constitution
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "A
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goddamned piece of paper." Embattled Statesman, walking around
>>>>>>>>>>>>> freely
>>>>>>>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dick Cheney. Former US Secretary of Defense, and signator of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PNAC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and current Vice President. Accused mastermind of the 911
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "terrorist"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> attack against the US (unproven), Cheney has been called "The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vice
>>>>>>>>>>>>> President For Torture" by the Washington Post. A staunch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> supporter
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Middle Eastern War Without End, Cheney, like Wolfowitz and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rumsfeld bears particular responsibility for the conduct of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> war.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Elder Statesman, walking around freely today.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8. Paul Wolfowitz. Former US Deputy Secretary of Defense and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> architect
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Middle Eastern War Without End. Casualties in two
>>>>>>>>>>>>> pre-emptive
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wars now exceed 100,000 deaths, not including the estimated
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2,000+
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> read more »
>>>>>> --
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>>>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
>>>> For options& help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>>>>
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>> --
>> Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
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>>
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>
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