Wednesday, October 12, 2011

Re: You’re Either With Us or Against Us

Stephen P. Cohen, a jew, has been instrumental in pushing the US into
the middle east to protect Israel.
What's sad is that Americans can't see through his 'peace efforts'.

Dr. Cohen is currently National Scholar at Israel Policy Forum, a non-
profit organization whose mission is to promote the Middle East peace
process in order to strengthen Israeli security and further U.S.
foreign policy interests in the region.
http://www.btvshalom.org/conference/dr_cohen_bio.html

know the enemy

On Oct 12, 7:19 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> Tuesday, October 11, 2011You're Either With Us or Against Usby Jacob G. Hornberger
> Yesterday, I described one of the principal dangers of a ruler having the omnipotent, non-reviewable power to assassinate his own citizens (and, for that matter, foreigners as well). All too often rulers, along with their armies and intelligence forces, come to place citizens who oppose their policies through speech in the same category as those who are opposing it with force. That's why tyrannical rulers oftentimes end up arresting, incarcerating, torturing, and even executing citizens who are doing nothing more than criticizing the regime or exposing or opposing wrongdoing by the regime.
> The mindset of warfare statists is a simplistic one, one that can be summed up in the mantra, "You're either with us or against us." Since an opponent of U.S. foreign policy isn't "with us," that obviously means that he's "against us" that is, he's on the side of the terrorists, the communists, or a nation state that the United States happens to be at war against. Since the mind of the welfare statist has only those two options for us or against us he cannot conceive of the possibility that a citizen is opposing government wrongdoing against foreigners on principle. In the statist mind, a person who falls into that category has automatically joined the side of the victims of the wrongdoing who are responding with forcible resistance or retaliation.
> Thus, for the warfare statist, the critic of government policy becomes as much an enemy of the state as the person who has actually taken up arms against the government.
> Last week I was debating a man named Stephen Cohen, an academic who serves as senior fellow at the Brookings Institute. The debate was on the international Russian television network RT. If you would like to watch the debate,you can do so here.
> The debate was over U.S. foreign policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and it became quite heated. I was making the standard libertarian argument: that U.S. foreign policy engenders the anger and hatred that foreigners have for the United States, which then manifests itself in the threat of terrorist retaliation, which then is used as the excuse for the federal government's suspending our civil liberties in order to "keep us safe" from the threat that the government's policies have produced.
> I pointed out that it's rational that the Pakistani government might resist the U.S. government's demand that the Pakistani government kill its own people for resisting the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan, especially since Pakistanis, with U.S. support, resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.
> I said that the best thing that the United States could do is immediately pull out all the troops and bring them home and stop the drone assassinations in Pakistan and elsewhere.
> During the course of the debate, Cohen became furious, in part because he felt that the host of the show had misstated one of his positions. But much to my surprise, he suddenly blurted out to me, "So, you would support Pakistani terrorist attack against the United States because it would be retaliation? You would have supported the Times Square bombing?"
> Imagine that. My opposition to U.S. foreign policy had caused Cohen to leap to the notion that I somehow support terrorism against the United States!
> Since I considered Cohen's questions to be idiotic, I chose not to dignify them with a direct response. Instead, I deflected the questions by stating that the U.S. should end its occupation now, not at some indefinite time in the future, which would bring an end to terrorist attacks against the United States.
> It was obvious, however, that in Cohen's mind, his questions weren't idiotic at all but instead perfectly rational. Remember: In the simplistic mindset of a warfare statist, "You're either with us or against us." When Cohen heard me criticizing U.S. foreign policy in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere and arguing that such policy produced the constant threat of terrorist retaliation, his mind obviously placed me on the side of the insurgents and the terrorists. His mind obviously precluded him from considering the possibility that a citizen can oppose governmental policy without placing himself on the side of foreign victims who are violently retaliating against such policy.
> That's the mindset I'm talking about with respect to why it's so dangerous that the president, the CIA, and the military now wield the omnipotent, non-reviewable power to assassinate citizens whom they deem "terrorists." Many political rulers, along with their high military and intelligence officers, have that same "You're with us or against us" mindset. Thus, they come to see domestic citizens who are opposing their policies as threats to "national security" or, even worse, an agent of the terrorists (or the communists, as during the Cold War).
> One irony is that while people like Cohen can so easily hurl questions like that at opponents of U.S. foreign policy, it is warfare statists like him who wants to keep the troops in Afghanistan knowing that some of them are going to be killed or maimed by the insurgent and terrorist attacks.
> Take a lookat this link. It shows the faces of the 6,230 U.S. service members who have died in Operation Iraqi Freedom [sic] and Operating Enduring Freedom [sic].
> Or take a look atthis article, which describes strategies for treating traumatic brain injuries suffered by servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> Or take a look atthis articlefrom last Sunday'sWashington Post,which shows a picture of Army Lt. Dan Berschinski with his girlfriend Rebecca Taber. He's missing both of his legs as a result of a bomb he stepped on in Afghanistan. He's one of the 13,000 U.S. soldiers injured in Afghanistan.
> Cohen's position the position of warfare statists is that the Afghan occupation must continue notwithstanding the fact that there will inevitably be many more dead, injured, and maimed U.S. soldiers. As I stated during our debate, he's not doing the troops any favors.
> And what's his justification for his position? During the debate, he said that we've got to be sure that al-Qaeda is no longer a threat.
> No longer a threat? Give me a break! They've had 10 years to kill al-Qaeda members to their heart's content. Nothing has restrained them with respect to their use of bombs, missiles, and bullets. If they haven't killed all the al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan by now, maybe there's a reason like maybe the occupation itself continues to generate a self-producing recruiting vehicle for al-Qaeda and the insurgents, who are simply committed to ridding their country of a foreign occupier.
> Would al-Qaeda come to the United States and invade and conquer our country if the U.S. Empire were to end its occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq? The notion is ridiculous. For one thing, the purpose of al-Qaeda is rid the Middle East of the U.S. Empire, including its occupations and support of Middle East dictatorships. Moreover, the notion that al-Qaeda has the military transport planes and ships and millions of troops that would be needed to cross the ocean and successfully invade and conquer the United States is too laughable to seriously critique.
> The simplistic "You're either with us or against us" mindset that guides warfare statists is obviously a dangerous thing when government officials wield the omnipotent power to take out their citizenry. But like other extraordinary "emergency" post-9/11 powers, it is ultimately rooted in the existence of the U.S. military empire. That's just one more reason why it's imperative that such empire be dismantled if we are to restore a free society to our country.http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2011-10-11.asp

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Re: The Supreme Court and Obamacare

Yea, you can do just about anything and hide it behind General
Welfare. Rather than the article, I should have just cited the
clause, as Bela Pelosi did.

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several
States, and with the Indian Tribes;

Does regulate now mean force?

On Oct 12, 9:51 am, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com> wrote:
> an argument could be made that it provides for the general Welfare of
> the people of the United States.
>
> imo, the government shouldn't be in the healthcare business as it's
> overwhelmed with bureaucracy and too wasteful
> there's also the issue of providing healthcare to those who don't pay
> into the system ... bleeding heart politicians can't say no
>
> On Oct 12, 8:27 am, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ok, any ideas on how Article 1, section 8 gives the government the
> > power to force particiption in interstate commerce?
>
> > Keep in mind, Obama has said over and over again, the penalty is not a
> > tax.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Re: Fwd: What are some great stories about Steve Jobs? - Quora

I didn't think Xerox even cared, but I used STAR in 1984. High
resolution photos via Email in 1984!!!, when Jobs and Woz were working
on PRINT.

On Oct 12, 10:12 am, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> no he didn't
> Xerox was allowed to buy pre-IPO stock from Apple, in exchange for
> engineer visits and an understanding that Apple would create a GUI
> product
> Xerox'x lawsuit was dismissed
>
> On Oct 12, 8:41 am, GregfromBoston <greg.vinc...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Of course, he did steal that graphical interface, and a whole lot
> > more, like icons, folders and email.
>
> > On Oct 11, 4:21 pm, plainolamerican <plainolameri...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > - On Sept. 2011, Apple became the most valuable company in the world.
> > > - Apple's "Lisa" was the first consumer computer with a graphical user
> > > interface.
> > > - "The Internet? We are not interested in it." – Bill Gates, 1993
>
> > > On Oct 11, 2:43 pm, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com>
> > > > Top Content For You This Week
> > > >  What are some great stories about Steve
> > > > Jobs?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FWhat-are-...>
> > > > Erik Lammerding<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FErik-Lammerding&digest...>voted
> > > > up this answer.
> > > >  322<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FWhat-are-...>
> > > > Kristopher Wright<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FKristopher-Wright&dige...>,
> > > > Film Maker
> > > > Founder of Apple, Steve Jobs, passed away today. I never met the man
> > > > personally and now I never will. I only had one semi-personal interaction
> > > > with Steve Jobs and I thought it was a good time to share it.
>
> > > > Before I met the wife I had a girlfriend named Rebecca. Rebecca had
> > > > non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. It was a rough time in her life and she was very
> > > > depressed by it, even though chemotherapy was healing her over time.
>
> > > > Rebecca was a big fan of Pixar films. I knew Steve Jobs had also been
> > > > battling cancer and was a big part of the Pixar company. I d... *Read
> > > > More »<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FWhat-are-...>
> > > > *
> > > > [image: Erik Lammerding]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FErik-Lammerding&digest...>
> > > > How did Steve Jobs impact the lives of Quora
> > > > users?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FHow-did-S...>
> > > >  60<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FHow-did-S...>
> > > > Anne K. Halsall<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FAnne-K.-Halsall&digest...>,
> > > > lifelong Apple Macintosh fan
> > > > I've been an Apple devotee all my life. I grew up on the products of Mr.
> > > > Jobs's imagination. I wrote BASIC on an Apple //e, I composed poetry on a
> > > > Mac Plus, I learned Photoshop on a Performa, I chatted with friends on a
> > > > blueberry iMac, I played games on a G4 cube, I took lecture notes on an
> > > > iBook, I created websites with a MacBook, I designed educational software
> > > > for the iPad, I helped bring Quora to the iPhone.
>
> > > > These devices have shaped my friendships, my personality, my education, and
> > > > my career. They have taught me the value of good desi... *Read More
> > > > »<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FSteve-Jobs%2FHow-did-S...>
> > > > *
> > > >  What allows Amazon to be so
> > > > innovative?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FAmazon%2FWhat-allows-A...>
> > > >  56<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FAmazon%2FWhat-allows-A...>
> > > > Jason Crawford<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FJason-Crawford&digest_...>,
> > > > Amazon employee 2004–2007
> > > > Some key pieces:
>
> > > >    - *Visionary leadership: *Jeff Bezos built an online retailer before most
> > > >    people knew what the Internet was. He was talking about what he called the
> > > >    "machine-to-machine Web" before the term "web services" was even coined.
> > > >    - *Customer focus:* Amazon is driven by serving customers and creating
> > > >    value for them, not by beating competitors or by winning any piece of some
> > > >    pre-existing market. This helps keep them focused on a consistent strategy (
> > > >    http://www.gsb.stanford.**edu/news...<http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/headlines/vftt_bezos.shtml>)
> > > >    and prevents them from wasting resources on me-too or copy...
>
> > > >  *Read More »<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FAmazon%2FWhat-allows-A...>
> > > > *
> > > > [image: Jason Crawford]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FJason-Crawford&digest_...>
> > > > What questions do Americans want to hear the GOP candidates answer on the
> > > > economy during the October 11th GOP
> > > > debate?...<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FWhat-questions-do-Amer...>
> > > >  17<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FWhat-questions-do-Amer...>
> > > > Patrick Ruffini<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FPatrick-Ruffini&digest...>,
> > > > Partner at Engage, former RNC and Bus...
> > > > Traditional, 9-to-5 jobs seem to be playing less and less of a role in
> > > > today's economy. How can we support people who have lost their jobs who want
> > > > to start their own small businesses, through the tax code or otherwise?
> > > > [image: Patrick
> > > > Ruffini]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FPatrick-Ruffini&digest...>
> > > > How can I eat meat with a good
> > > > conscience?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FHow-can-I-eat-meat-wit...>
> > > >  128<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FHow-can-I-eat-meat-wit...>
> > > > Jonas M Luster<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FJonas-M-Luster&digest_...>,
> > > > Science is sexy, food is sexy, culina...
> > > > I'd like to take you down another path.
>
> > > > All means of production of food in the United States and elsewhere are a
> > > > drain on the ecosystem in one way or another. Modern societies produce,
> > > > transport, and consume food as a commodity, which means all steps along the
> > > > way are tailored to be as cheap and as fast as possible.
>
> > > > Producing rice, soy, and beans, staples of a vegan diet, requires massive
> > > > operations which carve swaths of land from the ecosystem. Harvest is a
> > > > killer, both of animals and humans, depending on the country it is performed
> > > > in. A... *Read More
> > > > »<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FHow-can-I-eat-meat-wit...>
> > > > *
> > > >   People You May Know on Quora
> > > >  [image: David McElroy]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FDavid-McElroy&digest_i...>
> > > > David McElroy<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FDavid-McElroy&digest_i...>
> > > > Following 22 topics: iPhone
> > > > Applications<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FiPhone-Applications&di...>,
> > > > The Internet<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FThe-Internet-2&digest_...>,
> > > > Metaphysics<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FMetaphysics&digest_id=...>
> > > > ...
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com/l/JIEs4abnrg/_FOLLOW_BACK>
> > > >  [image: John Crowley]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FJohn-Crowley&digest_id...>
> > > > John Crowley<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FJohn-Crowley&digest_id...>
> > > > Following 14 topics: The Office (U.S. TV
> > > > series)<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FThe-Office-U-S-TV-seri...>,
> > > > Television<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FTelevision&digest_id=8...>,
> > > > iTunes<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FiTunes&digest_id=80338...>
> > > > ...
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com/l/TUxcu0vfiL/_FOLLOW_BACK>
> > > >  [image: Mathew Patrick
> > > > Heggem]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FMathew-Patrick-Heggem&...>
> > > > Mathew Patrick Heggem<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FMathew-Patrick-Heggem&...>
> > > > Recently asked What is
> > > > hypermedia?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FWhat-is-hypermedia&dig...>
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com/l/woXeeF3aWK/_FOLLOW_BACK>
> > > >  [image: Donnie Harold
> > > > Harris]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FDonnie-Harold-Harris&d...>
> > > > Donnie Harold Harris<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FDonnie-Harold-Harris&d...>
> > > > Recently answered What is the smallest thing, or things, that you would have
> > > > to change in history to prevent the Second World War from
> > > > ...<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FWorld-War-II%2FWhat-is...>
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com/l/EABTUXdGAa/_FOLLOW_BACK>
> > > >  [image: Zorek Richards]<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FZorek-Richards&digest_...>
> > > > Zorek Richards<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FZorek-Richards&digest_...>
> > > > Recently answered Why is Fox News so biased towards the Republicans and Tea
> > > > Party?<http://www.quora.com/digest/track_click?url=%2FWhy-is-Fox-News-so-bia...>
> > > >  <http://www.quora.com/l/C4CX81OtfM/_FOLLOW_BACK>
> > > >  This email was sent by Quora (261 Hamilton Ave #212, Palo Alto CA, 94301),
> > > > a continually improving collection of questions and answers created, edited,
> > > > and organized by everyone who uses it. To disable weekly digest emails from
> > > > Quora, visit the following link:http://www.quora.com/l/DhVTRUaxGO-Hidequoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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Re: You’re Either With Us or Against Us

The simplistic "You're either with us or against us" mindset that
guides warfare statists is obviously a dangerous thing when government
officials wield the omnipotent power to take out their citizenry.
---
dangerous? you bet!
the government should have the power to 'take out' terrorists,
invaders and citizens ... especially citizens like al awlaki and
Abdulhakim Muhammed

On Oct 12, 7:19 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> Tuesday, October 11, 2011You're Either With Us or Against Usby Jacob G. Hornberger
> Yesterday, I described one of the principal dangers of a ruler having the omnipotent, non-reviewable power to assassinate his own citizens (and, for that matter, foreigners as well). All too often rulers, along with their armies and intelligence forces, come to place citizens who oppose their policies through speech in the same category as those who are opposing it with force. That's why tyrannical rulers oftentimes end up arresting, incarcerating, torturing, and even executing citizens who are doing nothing more than criticizing the regime or exposing or opposing wrongdoing by the regime.
> The mindset of warfare statists is a simplistic one, one that can be summed up in the mantra, "You're either with us or against us." Since an opponent of U.S. foreign policy isn't "with us," that obviously means that he's "against us" that is, he's on the side of the terrorists, the communists, or a nation state that the United States happens to be at war against. Since the mind of the welfare statist has only those two options for us or against us he cannot conceive of the possibility that a citizen is opposing government wrongdoing against foreigners on principle. In the statist mind, a person who falls into that category has automatically joined the side of the victims of the wrongdoing who are responding with forcible resistance or retaliation.
> Thus, for the warfare statist, the critic of government policy becomes as much an enemy of the state as the person who has actually taken up arms against the government.
> Last week I was debating a man named Stephen Cohen, an academic who serves as senior fellow at the Brookings Institute. The debate was on the international Russian television network RT. If you would like to watch the debate,you can do so here.
> The debate was over U.S. foreign policy in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and it became quite heated. I was making the standard libertarian argument: that U.S. foreign policy engenders the anger and hatred that foreigners have for the United States, which then manifests itself in the threat of terrorist retaliation, which then is used as the excuse for the federal government's suspending our civil liberties in order to "keep us safe" from the threat that the government's policies have produced.
> I pointed out that it's rational that the Pakistani government might resist the U.S. government's demand that the Pakistani government kill its own people for resisting the U.S. occupation of Afghanistan, especially since Pakistanis, with U.S. support, resisted the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.
> I said that the best thing that the United States could do is immediately pull out all the troops and bring them home and stop the drone assassinations in Pakistan and elsewhere.
> During the course of the debate, Cohen became furious, in part because he felt that the host of the show had misstated one of his positions. But much to my surprise, he suddenly blurted out to me, "So, you would support Pakistani terrorist attack against the United States because it would be retaliation? You would have supported the Times Square bombing?"
> Imagine that. My opposition to U.S. foreign policy had caused Cohen to leap to the notion that I somehow support terrorism against the United States!
> Since I considered Cohen's questions to be idiotic, I chose not to dignify them with a direct response. Instead, I deflected the questions by stating that the U.S. should end its occupation now, not at some indefinite time in the future, which would bring an end to terrorist attacks against the United States.
> It was obvious, however, that in Cohen's mind, his questions weren't idiotic at all but instead perfectly rational. Remember: In the simplistic mindset of a warfare statist, "You're either with us or against us." When Cohen heard me criticizing U.S. foreign policy in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and elsewhere and arguing that such policy produced the constant threat of terrorist retaliation, his mind obviously placed me on the side of the insurgents and the terrorists. His mind obviously precluded him from considering the possibility that a citizen can oppose governmental policy without placing himself on the side of foreign victims who are violently retaliating against such policy.
> That's the mindset I'm talking about with respect to why it's so dangerous that the president, the CIA, and the military now wield the omnipotent, non-reviewable power to assassinate citizens whom they deem "terrorists." Many political rulers, along with their high military and intelligence officers, have that same "You're with us or against us" mindset. Thus, they come to see domestic citizens who are opposing their policies as threats to "national security" or, even worse, an agent of the terrorists (or the communists, as during the Cold War).
> One irony is that while people like Cohen can so easily hurl questions like that at opponents of U.S. foreign policy, it is warfare statists like him who wants to keep the troops in Afghanistan knowing that some of them are going to be killed or maimed by the insurgent and terrorist attacks.
> Take a lookat this link. It shows the faces of the 6,230 U.S. service members who have died in Operation Iraqi Freedom [sic] and Operating Enduring Freedom [sic].
> Or take a look atthis article, which describes strategies for treating traumatic brain injuries suffered by servicemen in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> Or take a look atthis articlefrom last Sunday'sWashington Post,which shows a picture of Army Lt. Dan Berschinski with his girlfriend Rebecca Taber. He's missing both of his legs as a result of a bomb he stepped on in Afghanistan. He's one of the 13,000 U.S. soldiers injured in Afghanistan.
> Cohen's position the position of warfare statists is that the Afghan occupation must continue notwithstanding the fact that there will inevitably be many more dead, injured, and maimed U.S. soldiers. As I stated during our debate, he's not doing the troops any favors.
> And what's his justification for his position? During the debate, he said that we've got to be sure that al-Qaeda is no longer a threat.
> No longer a threat? Give me a break! They've had 10 years to kill al-Qaeda members to their heart's content. Nothing has restrained them with respect to their use of bombs, missiles, and bullets. If they haven't killed all the al-Qaeda members in Afghanistan by now, maybe there's a reason like maybe the occupation itself continues to generate a self-producing recruiting vehicle for al-Qaeda and the insurgents, who are simply committed to ridding their country of a foreign occupier.
> Would al-Qaeda come to the United States and invade and conquer our country if the U.S. Empire were to end its occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq? The notion is ridiculous. For one thing, the purpose of al-Qaeda is rid the Middle East of the U.S. Empire, including its occupations and support of Middle East dictatorships. Moreover, the notion that al-Qaeda has the military transport planes and ships and millions of troops that would be needed to cross the ocean and successfully invade and conquer the United States is too laughable to seriously critique.
> The simplistic "You're either with us or against us" mindset that guides warfare statists is obviously a dangerous thing when government officials wield the omnipotent power to take out their citizenry. But like other extraordinary "emergency" post-9/11 powers, it is ultimately rooted in the existence of the U.S. military empire. That's just one more reason why it's imperative that such empire be dismantled if we are to restore a free society to our country.http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2011-10-11.asp

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Re: Ron Paul Calls Out Herman Cain For Lie Over Fed Audit During GOP Debate

Congress, the Treasury, and the Fed have put us on the hook for over
$14 trillion in bailouts and loans. This is in addition to our over
$16 trillion national debt. When testifying before Congress in 2009,
Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke refused to disclose which institutions
received trillions of dollars in these bailouts and loans or to give
our representatives details about what deals are being made with
foreign banks.

With Ron Paul serving as chairman of the House Domestic Monetary
Policy Subcommittee and Rand Paul leading the fight in the Senate, our
chance to pass Audit the Fed has never been better.

http://www.auditthefed.com

On Oct 12, 7:21 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> Ron Paul Calls Out Herman Cain For Lie Over Fed Audit During GOP DebateRyan Grimm
> At the GOP Bloomberg/Washington Postdebate Tuesday night, Ron Paul, the longest-serving advocate of a Fed audit in Congress, asked Herman Cain, a former director of the Kansas City Fed, why he opposed an audit of the central bank, and why he called advocates of such an audit ignorant.
> "Mr. Cain, in the past you have been rather critical of any of us who would want to audit the Fed. You have said -- you've used pretty strong terms, that we were ignorant and that we didn't know what we are doing, and therefore, there was no need for an audit anyway, because if you had one, you're not going to find out anything, because everybody knows everything about the Fed," Paul said.
> "But now that we have found and we have gotten an audit, we have found out an awful lot on how special businesses get bailed out -- Wall Street, the banks, and special companies, foreign governments. And you said that you advise those of us who were concerned, and you belittled -- you say call up the Federal Reserve and just ask them. ... Do you still stick by this, that that this is frivolous, or do you think it's very important? Sixty-four percent of the American people want a full audit of the Fed on a regular basis."
> Cain said that, in fact, he didn't oppose an audit, and that when he served on the Fed it was a different institution. "You have misquoted me. I did not call you or any of your people ignorant. I don't know where that came from," he said. "You've gotta be careful of the stuff you get off the Internet."
> A careful check of the Internet, however -- guided by the Paul campaign -- turns up audio of Cain saying just what Paul accused him of saying. As recently as 2010, long after the Fed began engaging in the lending Cain says he opposed, Cain belittled those calling for an audit.
> "Some people say that we ought to audit the Fed. Here's what I do know. The Federal Reserve already has so many internal audits it's ridiculous. I don't know why people think we're gonna learn this great amount of information by auditing the Federal Reserve. I think a lot of people are calling for this audit of the Federal Reserve because they don't know enough about it. There's no hidden secrets going on in the Federal Reserve to my knowledge," he said.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q18jMzTWJ9Ahttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/11/ron-paul-herman-cain-fed-audit-gop-debate_n_1006228.html

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