World News

Tuesday, November 8, 2011

Re: Immigration and Misplaced Blame

Â
Such is the case here,Â where the Constitution clearly mandates that aÂ fundamental, primary tenet;Â e.g.; the very security of our borders and our people, by a "central/federal" government,Â there are those individuals whoÂ just downright refuse to accept this as fact, even when it is a very part of our Constitution.Â

ROTFLMAO!

HERE is the Constitution:
http://www.constitution.org/cons/constitu.txt

You were unable to provide what does not exist before ... doubt this time will be any different, but the Article, Section and Clause or Amendment if you can find it.

Of course, the Constitution is a red herring in the (natural) rights discussion.

Regard$,
--MJ

"Government is in reality established by the few; and these few assume the consent of all the rest, without any such consent being actually given." Lysander Spooner

Â
We've been down this road before:
Â
http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/browse_thread/thread/528381ba91151a01/6975eafc081309e1?hl=ená¬¿eafc081309e1
Â
Â
http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/browse_thread/thread/db218d176a3fea96
Â
Â
On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

Yelling does little for your delusion.

Migration, of course, is one of those (natural) rights.

Maybe THAT is the problem. You simply do not understand/grasp (natural) rights.

I certainly did not 'consent' ... the same applies for MOST within this Country.

You might seek out some Spooner, as well.

Regard$,

--MJ

"By what right do men exercise power over each other?" -- Auberon Herbert

At 09:18 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

SHOW ME THE MAP OF THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE LINES... YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED IN FANTASY... MINE IN REALITY... "CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED" MEANS EXACTLY THAT.... "NO GOVERNMENT.....NO GOVERNED" , "NO GOVERNED....NO GOVERNMENT"

THIS REQUIRES CITIZENSHIP OR CONSENT (2 WAY...NOT 1 WAY STREET) TO BE GOVERNED...Â A FOREIGN NATIONAL WITHOUT THAT 2 WAY CONSENT IS ILLEGAL

PLEASE TAKE A READING COMPREHENSION CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST NOTICED THE CAPS....SORRY.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

You remain confused.

To Secure (natural) rights ... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Governments are created to secure (natural) rights.
You want Government to VIOLATE (natural) rights ... and then insert some nonsense about voting and map lines.
INSTEAD of securing (natural) rights, you want Government to extend and withhold permission -- which has NOTHING to do with the Declaration et al.

Regard$,
--MJ

A right is the sanction of independent action. A right is that which can be exercised without anyone's permission. If you exist only because society permits you to exist, you have no right to your own life. A permission can be revoked at any time. If, before undertaking some action, you must obtain the permission of society -- you are not free, whether such permission is granted to you or not. Only a slave acts on permission. A permission is not a right. -- Alyssa Rosenbaum

At 04:47 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

Hey MJ'..... It's right HERE:

That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men,,,,,,,,,,,,deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Foreign nationals are not "Governed" nor can they "Vote".Â Please read and heed the Documents you try to quote.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:57 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

At 12:26 PM 11/4/2011, you wrote:

Â MJ says:Â They argue that we can't have people circumventing the
system because it undermines the rule of law. But laws are legitimate
only when they protect the natural rights of others.
Laws are designed to protect the natural rights of that countries
citizens... Definitely NOT "natural rights of others."

Where was THAT portion of the Declaration?

Regard$,

--MJ

It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. ... The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments coequal and cosovereign within themselves. -- Thomas Jefferson to Jarvis, 1820

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

Â

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Mark M. Kahle H.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

Â

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

Â

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Mark M. Kahle H.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

Â

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

Â

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Immigration and Misplaced Blame

yes migration is one of those (natural) rights that the "governed" and the "government" have in this nation.

Actually, migration is one of the (natural) rights that is VIOLATED by the government in this nation.

Please, in very simple terms, explain to me exactly how a foreign national without permission to cross our border (or Mexicos border for that matter as the laws there require THEIR "governed" have permission to exit the country) is considered to be one of OUR "governed".
As to understanding "natural rights"... I understand the "concept" perfectly. I also understand that they exist nation by nation as granted to its citizens by constitutional decree. The question is: Do you?

You prove the point as you continue to describe permissions -- not (natural) rights.
It is noted that you dropped the 'consent' portion.

Regard$,
--MJ

"Under the law of nature, all men are born free, every one comes into the world with a right to his own person, which includes the liberty of moving and using it at his own will. This is what is called personal liberty, and is given him by the Author of nature, because necessary for his own sustenance." --Thomas Jefferson:

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:22 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

Yelling does little for your delusion.

Migration, of course, is one of those (natural) rights.

Maybe THAT is the problem. You simply do not understand/grasp (natural) rights.

I certainly did not 'consent' ... the same applies for MOST within this Country.

You might seek out some Spooner, as well.

Regard$,

--MJ

"By what right do men exercise power over each other?" -- Auberon Herbert

At 09:18 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

SHOW ME THE MAP OF THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE LINES... YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED IN FANTASY... MINE IN REALITY... "CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED" MEANS EXACTLY THAT.... "NO GOVERNMENT.....NO GOVERNED" , "NO GOVERNED....NO GOVERNMENT"

THIS REQUIRES CITIZENSHIP OR CONSENT (2 WAY...NOT 1 WAY STREET) TO BE GOVERNED... A FOREIGN NATIONAL WITHOUT THAT 2 WAY CONSENT IS ILLEGAL

PLEASE TAKE A READING COMPREHENSION CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST NOTICED THE CAPS....SORRY.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

You remain confused.

To Secure (natural) rights ... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Governments are created to secure (natural) rights.
You want Government to VIOLATE (natural) rights ... and then insert some nonsense about voting and map lines.
INSTEAD of securing (natural) rights, you want Government to extend and withhold permission -- which has NOTHING to do with the Declaration et al.

Regard$,
--MJ

A right is the sanction of independent action. A right is that which can be exercised without anyone's permission. If you exist only because society permits you to exist, you have no right to your own life. A permission can be revoked at any time. If, before undertaking some action, you must obtain the permission of society -- you are not free, whether such permission is granted to you or not. Only a slave acts on permission. A permission is not a right. -- Alyssa Rosenbaum

At 04:47 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

Hey MJ'..... It's right HERE:

That to secure these rights,
Governments are instituted among Men,,,,,,,,,,,,deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Foreign nationals are not "Governed" nor can they "Vote". Please read and heed the Documents you try to quote.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:57 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

At 12:26 PM 11/4/2011, you wrote:

MJ says: They argue that we can't have people circumventing the
system because it undermines the rule of law. But laws are legitimate
only when they protect the natural rights of others.
Laws are designed to protect the natural rights of that countries
citizens... Definitely NOT "natural rights of others."

Where was THAT portion of the Declaration?

Regard$,

--MJ

It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. ... The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments coequal and cosovereign within themselves. -- Thomas Jefferson to Jarvis, 1820

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Mark M. Kahle H.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Mark M. Kahle H.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Immigration and Misplaced Blame

Good Morning Mark!

There are some folks who, when confronted with or dealing with a law, doctrine, manifesto, or just plainol' common sense; they just downright refuse to accept it. Law abiding citizens, who, when they don't like the law, act like the law does not apply to them.

Such is the case here, where the Constitution clearly mandates that a fundamental, primary tenet; e.g.; the very security of our borders and our people, by a "central/federal" government, there are those individuals who just downright refuse to accept this as fact, even when it is a very part of our Constitution.

We've been down this road before:

http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/browse_thread/thread/528381ba91151a01/6975eafc081309e1?hl=enᬿeafc081309e1

http://groups.google.com/group/politicalforum/browse_thread/thread/db218d176a3fea96

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

Yelling does little for your delusion.
Migration, of course, is one of those (natural) rights.

Maybe THAT is the problem. You simply do not understand/grasp (natural) rights.

I certainly did not 'consent' ... the same applies for MOST within this Country.

You might seek out some Spooner, as well.

Regard$,
--MJ

"By what right do men exercise power over each other?" -- Auberon Herbert

At 09:18 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

SHOW ME THE MAP OF THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE LINES... YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED IN FANTASY... MINE IN REALITY... "CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED" MEANS EXACTLY THAT.... "NO GOVERNMENT.....NO GOVERNED" , "NO GOVERNED....NO GOVERNMENT"

THIS REQUIRES CITIZENSHIP OR CONSENT (2 WAY...NOT 1 WAY STREET) TO BE GOVERNED... A FOREIGN NATIONAL WITHOUT THAT 2 WAY CONSENT IS ILLEGAL

PLEASE TAKE A READING COMPREHENSION CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST NOTICED THE CAPS....SORRY.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

You remain confused.

To Secure (natural) rights ... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Governments are created to secure (natural) rights.

You want Government to VIOLATE (natural) rights ... and then insert some nonsense about voting and map lines.

INSTEAD of securing (natural) rights, you want Government to extend and withhold permission -- which has NOTHING to do with the Declaration et al.

Regard$,

--MJ

A right is the sanction of independent action. A right is that which can be exercised without anyone's permission. If you exist only because society permits you to exist, you have no right to your own life. A permission can be revoked at any time. If, before undertaking some action, you must obtain the permission of society -- you are not free, whether such permission is granted to you or not. Only a slave acts on permission. A permission is not a right. -- Alyssa Rosenbaum

At 04:47 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

Hey MJ'..... It's right HERE:

That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men,,,,,,,,,,,,deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Foreign nationals are not "Governed" nor can they "Vote". Please read and heed the Documents you try to quote.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:57 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

At 12:26 PM 11/4/2011, you wrote:

MJ says: They argue that we can't have people circumventing the
system because it undermines the rule of law. But laws are legitimate
only when they protect the natural rights of others.

Laws are designed to protect the natural rights of that countries
citizens... Definitely NOT "natural rights of others."

Where was THAT portion of the Declaration?

Regard$,

--MJ

It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. ... The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments coequal and cosovereign within themselves. -- Thomas Jefferson to Jarvis, 1820

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Mark M. Kahle H.

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

Re: Immigration and Misplaced Blame

yes migration is one of those (natural) rights that the "governed" and the "government" have in this nation.

Please, in very simple terms, explain to me exactly how a foreign national without permission to cross our border (or Mexicos border for that matter as the laws there require THEIR "governed" have permission to exit the country) is considered to be one of OUR "governed".

As to understanding "natural rights"... I understand the "concept" perfectly. I also understand that they exist nation by nation as granted to its citizens by constitutional decree. The question is: Do you?

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:22 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

Yelling does little for your delusion.
Migration, of course, is one of those (natural) rights.

Maybe THAT is the problem. You simply do not understand/grasp (natural) rights.

I certainly did not 'consent' ... the same applies for MOST within this Country.

You might seek out some Spooner, as well.

Regard$,
--MJ

"By what right do men exercise power over each other?" -- Auberon Herbert

At 09:18 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

SHOW ME THE MAP OF THE WORLD THAT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE LINES... YOUR ARGUMENT IS BASED IN FANTASY... MINE IN REALITY... "CONSENT OF THE GOVERNED" MEANS EXACTLY THAT.... "NO GOVERNMENT.....NO GOVERNED" , "NO GOVERNED....NO GOVERNMENT"

THIS REQUIRES CITIZENSHIP OR CONSENT (2 WAY...NOT 1 WAY STREET) TO BE GOVERNED... A FOREIGN NATIONAL WITHOUT THAT 2 WAY CONSENT IS ILLEGAL

PLEASE TAKE A READING COMPREHENSION CLASS!!!!!!!!!!!!

JUST NOTICED THE CAPS....SORRY.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 4:35 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

You remain confused.

To Secure (natural) rights ... Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Governments are created to secure (natural) rights.

You want Government to VIOLATE (natural) rights ... and then insert some nonsense about voting and map lines.

INSTEAD of securing (natural) rights, you want Government to extend and withhold permission -- which has NOTHING to do with the Declaration et al.

Regard$,

--MJ

A right is the sanction of independent action. A right is that which can be exercised without anyone's permission. If you exist only because society permits you to exist, you have no right to your own life. A permission can be revoked at any time. If, before undertaking some action, you must obtain the permission of society -- you are not free, whether such permission is granted to you or not. Only a slave acts on permission. A permission is not a right. -- Alyssa Rosenbaum

At 04:47 PM 11/7/2011, you wrote:

Hey MJ'..... It's right HERE:

That to secure these rights,

Governments are instituted among Men,,,,,,,,,,,,deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed

Foreign nationals are not "Governed" nor can they "Vote". Please read and heed the Documents you try to quote.

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:57 PM, MJ <michaelj@america.net> wrote:

At 12:26 PM 11/4/2011, you wrote:

MJ says: They argue that we can't have people circumventing the
system because it undermines the rule of law. But laws are legitimate
only when they protect the natural rights of others.

Laws are designed to protect the natural rights of that countries
citizens... Definitely NOT "natural rights of others."

Where was THAT portion of the Declaration?

Regard$,

--MJ

It is a very dangerous doctrine to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions. It is one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. ... The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with the corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots. It has more wisely made all the departments coequal and cosovereign within themselves. -- Thomas Jefferson to Jarvis, 1820

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Mark M. Kahle H.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--

Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.

For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/

* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.

* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.

--
Mark M. Kahle H.

Re: do remember this one?

Guten Morgen PlainOl', and yes I remember this!

It is pretty much just like all urban myths, usually started by communists and socialists, their urban myth chant then picked up by women and chinless, spineless men who lack testosterone levels, wherein elected officials then pick up the urban myth in order to wield power over their constituency in the form of hand outs, tax breaks and pay-outs.

Thanks for sharing this.....It's the same old story, whether it be over-population, climate change, class warfare, (one of Studio's favorites!) or just plainOl' "America is evil because it has a big stick" theory.

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 3:19 PM, plainolamerican <plainolamerican@gmail.com> wrote:

http://overpopulationisamyth.com/overpopulation-the-making-of-a-myth

--
Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
For options & help see http://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum

* Visit our other community at http://www.PoliticalForum.com/
* It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
* Read the latest breaking news, and more.