Re: Ron Paul’s Exchange with Santorum Says It All

Ron Paul is more of a Statesman than a Politician
---
and would be an even better potus

but repubs, dems, and rest need not worry ... they'll get another
potus who supports US interventionist policies in the middle east and
the rest of the planet, feels obligated to protect oil and israel, and
will diminish American values by opening the border to even more
immigrants from non-white countries

know the enemy

On Aug 20, 11:00 am, lbiglee75 <leroys...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would ask one question about Ron Paul and the other candidates and
> it is this. How many times compared to the others have you heard Ron
> Paul say what he would do other than what we should do as a nation?
> Ron Paul is more of a Statesman than a Politician
>
> On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > What I find both humorous, but at the same time troublesome, is that the
> > writer of this epistle doesn't have his facts correct.    "They"  being
> > those that call themselves "Libertarian";  really "don't get it".
>
> > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 8:59 AM, THE ANNOINTED ONE <markmka...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >> Tell me, just how many more times must this single encounter be
> >> "translated" so we can understand it??
>
> >> That so many fine authors want to put  such a short list of short
> >> encounters in front of me with such long in-depth definitions and
> >> explanations is so very Republican/Democratic of them.
>
> >> I was under the impression that the best thing about Paul supporters
> >> was that they "get it". Those that don't "get it" probably never
> >> will.
>
> >> Just what is to be gained by boring the piss out of me and making sure
> >> that I ignore the next 20 minute article about a 5 minute
> >> conversation?
>
> >> Answer... I will ignore all that follow whether about new info or
> >> not.
>
> >> On Aug 19, 5:53 pm, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> >> > Friday, August 19, 2011Ron Paul s Exchange with Santorum Says It Allby
> >> > Jacob G. Hornberger
> >> > The exchange over Iran between Ron Paul and Rick Santorum in the recent
> >> > Republican presidential debate goes a long way in explaining why the
> >> > mainstream statists, including those in the Republican Party and the
> >> > mainstream media, wish that libertarians would just go away.
> >> > Santorum pointed to 1979, the year of the Iranian revolution, when the
> >> > Iranian people took U.S. diplomats hostage and held them in captivity for
> >> > about a year. Santorum pointed to that pivotal event to show that the United
> >> > States has been at war with Iran ever since.
> >> > For statists, Santorum s point is the end of the discussion. The U.S.
> >> > government is good. It is innocent. It was just minding its own business
> >> > when Iranian revolutionaries attacked our country without any reason
> >> > whatsoever.
> >> > We saw the same phenomenon after the 9/11 attacks. They just hate us for
> >> > our freedom and values, U.S. officials cried. We were just minding our own
> >> > business when the terrorists decided to kill Americans. The sentiment was
> >> > the mindset of American statists.
> >> > And what happens if a libertarian says, Wait a minute. The story isn t
> >> > that simple. Let s look at what motivated these foreigners to do these
> >> > things. Let s examine what the U.S. government has been doing in foreign
> >> > affairs ?
> >> > Well, we all know what happens. The statists go ballistic, both in
> >> > politics and in mainstream newspapers across the land. Oh, you re blaming
> >> > America! You hate our country! You must be a terrorist yourself. America,
> >> > love our government or leave our country!
> >> > In fact, Paul s exchange with Santorum wasn t the first time this has
> >> > happened. Recall that famous debate exchange between Paul and Rudy Guliani
> >> > four years ago. Paul pointed out that the terrorists came here on 9/11 to
> >> > kill us because our government had been over there for years killing them.
> >> > Guliani went ballistic, as did his fellow statists on the stage. Their
> >> > fellow statists in the mainstream media went crazy too. No one, and
> >> > certainly not a presidential candidate, is supposed to say such things. It s
> >> > considered beyond the pale. Everyone knows that our government is good,
> >> > wise, and benevolent, believes in freedom and democracy, and would never do
> >> > anything bad to foreigners.
> >> > Yet, that s actually when Ron Paul s 2008 presidential campaign took
> >> > off. Tens of thousands of ordinary Americans instinctively knew that here
> >> > was a man who wasn t feeding them pabulum. Here was a man who had the
> >> > courage to speak the truth about U.S. foreign policy. He was willing to
> >> > observe openly that the emperor wore no clothes.
> >> > And that s why the statists wish that Ron Paul would just go away. It s
> >> > why they wish libertarians would just go away. That s why they resent us. We
> >> > cause people to confront reality, which is sometimes not a comfortable thing
> >> > to do. In a sense, we libertarians are therapists, people who help their
> >> > patients confront realities that are oftentimes quite painful to face.
> >> > Look at the drug war. The statists just want to keep doing what they ve
> >> > been doing for 40 years -- busting drug sellers, busting drug users, and
> >> > locking people up for the rest of their lives. Along come libertarians and
> >> > point out the utter inanity of the whole thing. The never-ending deaths,
> >> > destruction, corruption, violence, gang wars, and infringements on privacy
> >> > and liberty. Libertarians say: End this idiocy by legalizing drugs.
> >> > But that s considered outside the pale for the statists. It s okay to
> >> > call for reform of such programs. But abolition? Oh my gosh! I wish those
> >> > libertarians would just shut up and go away. Everything is working out so
> >> > fine without them.
> >> > Look at how Ron Paul responded to Santorum. He explained to Santorum
> >> > that the history of bad relations between Iran and the United States did not
> >> > begin in 1979 but rather in 1953. That was the year that the CIA, the U.S.
> >> > government s secret intelligence force, entered into Iran and ousted the
> >> > democratically elected prime minister of the country, Mohammed Mossadegh, a
> >> > man who had been named Time Magazine s Man of the Year.
> >> > Why did the CIA do that? No, not for freedom and democracy, as the
> >> > statists would like to believe. Instead, the CIA interfered with the
> >> > internal affairs of Iran to retaliate for Mossadegh s nationalization of
> >> > British oil concessions. Yes, the CIA s anti-democracy coup was about oil,
> >> > not freedom and democracy.
> >> > In fact, having ousted a democratically elected prime minister, the CIA
> >> > proceeded to install a non-elected brutal dictator, the Shah of Iran, into
> >> > power. The CIA then proceeded to train and work closely with the Shah s
> >> > counterpart to the CIA, his brutal and tortuous Savak intelligence force.
> >> > The Shah then proceeded to impose one of the harshest dictatorial regimes in
> >> > the world on the Iranian people, with the full support of the CIA and the
> >> > rest of the U.S. government.
> >> > Of course, U.S. officials didn t care one whit what the Shah was doing
> >> > to the Iranian people. All that mattered was that he was our friend.
> >> > Imagine if Savak had assassinated John Kennedy in order to get Lyndon
> >> > Johnson into power. How would the American people feel about that some 50
> >> > years later? I ll tell you: the deep anger and rage would still be palpable.
> >> > Well, that s how the Iranian people felt about the U.S. government in
> >> > 1979. That s why they took the U.S. officials hostage. They were still angry
> >> > about the CIA s ouster of their democratically elected prime minister. They
> >> > were still angry about the Iranian people who had been brutalized,
> >> > incarcerated, and tortured by the Shah and his goons, with the full support
> >> > and cooperation of the CIA.
> >> > That s what Santorum and his fellow statist cohorts don t want to
> >> > confront. They want to continue living their blissful little lives of
> >> > delusion. For them, the federal government is god. It is all-good. It is
> >> > all-knowing. It is all-powerful. It doesn t support dictatorships. It
> >> > believes in freedom and democracy. It never does bad things to people, not
> >> > even conduct syphilis experiments on them.
> >> > That s the myth that is inculcated in every public school across America
> >> > and in most government-licensed private schools. That s the mindset that is
> >> > produced in people like Santorum and the other statist candidates on that
> >> > stage.
> >> > It s also the mindset of the mainstream news media reporters asking the
> >> > questions. That s why they feel so comfortable with the statists on stage.
> >> > That s why they feel so uncomfortable whenever Ron Paul is answering their
> >> > questions.
> >> > Let s face it: the statists wish that libertarians had never been born
> >> > and are extremely concerned about the rising popularity of libertarianism
> >> > among the American people. That s why they ve done their best to lock the
> >> > Libertarian Party out of the political process with their inane
> >> > ballot-restriction barriers. That s why they kept Ron Paul, a long-serving
> >> > congressman, out of the early presidential debates four years ago. That s
> >> > why they are keeping Gary Johnson, a popular two-term governor of New
> >> > Mexico, out of the current round of debates. After all, Johnson, another
> >> > libertarian, is also calling for ending the drug war and bringing the troops
> >> > home. Why should it surprise us that they re locking him out of the
> >> > presidential debates, as they tried to do four years ago with Ron Paul?
> >> > They think that if they can just keep hewing to their little myths and
> >> > delusions and keep teaching them to their children in their
> >> > government-approved schools, everything will be fine. If they could only
> >> > shut out those pesky libertarians who confront people with truth and
> >> > reality, everything would be hunky dory.
> >> > But truth will out, which is why so many people are gravitating to Ron
> >> > Paul. They instinctively know that he s speaking truth to power, and they
> >> > can see that power doesn t like it.
> >> > Ron Paul summed up the problem most eloquently when, in response to Rick
> >> > Santorum, he stated, We just plain don t mind our own business. That s our
> >> > problem.
> >> > Of course, that s the problem with statists. They mind
>
> ...
>
> read more »

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Re: Is the Fed Treasonous?

Premise is wrong:

The only Americans who were ever guilty of treason under this
definition would have been Abraham Lincoln, his cabinet, the "Civil
War" Congress, the Union Army command, and all army volunteers from
the Northern states during the War to Prevent Southern Independence.
Waging war against the Southern states was the very definition of
treason under the U.S. Constitution.

So the resulting story can be nothing but bullshit.

The South, with secession, negated their connection to and therefore
any need of compliance with, the US Constitution. They had their very
own. http://www.usconstitution.net/csa.html

On Aug 21, 12:56 pm, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
> Is the Fed Treasonous?by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
> The neoconservative talking heads recently took a short time out from praising, deifying, and anointing Texas Governor Rick Perry as the next president of the United States to chastise him for criticizing the Fed. In particular, he was taken to the neocon woodshed for saying that the printing of trillions of dollars of paper currency was harmful to the economy and, since we are in a depression, such an act was "almost treasonous."
> Governor Perry could not have been referring to the actual definition of treason that is contained in Article 3, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution, which reads as follows:Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. (emphasis added).The only Americans who were ever guilty of treason under this definition would have been Abraham Lincoln, his cabinet, the "Civil War" Congress, the Union Army command, and all army volunteers from the Northern states during the War to Prevent Southern Independence. Waging war against the Southern states was the very definition of treason under the U.S. Constitution.
> Lincoln rhetorically redefined treason to essentially mean criticism of himself and his government. This has always been the preferred definition of treason by American statists, beginning with Daniel Webster, who attempted to redefine it as such in his famous debate over the nature of the union with Senator Robert Hayne of South Carolina. Lincoln simply adopted Webster's subterfuge while subverting the Constitution with his war.
> So where does the Fed fit in here? Was Governor Perry totally off base when he said the Fed's irresponsible and reckless behavior is "almost treasonous." The Fed is not "treasonous" according to the actual definition of treason in the Constitution. But what the Fed is guilty of is being the financial handmaiden of the subversion of constitutional government in America ever since its founding in 1913. It has helped to finance all of America's unconstitutional wars and other "military adventures," for example, beginning with the Korean War. Congress no longer declares war, as required by the Constitution, and then disguises the costs of war with debt and with money creation by the Fed. Without the Fed, there would have been fewer unconstitutional wars over the past 60 years, and the wars that did occur would have been shorter.
> World War I was a nightmare for civil liberties in America, with governmental goons literally imprisoning people for such "crimes" as reading the Bill of Rights in public. The Fed financed about one fourth of that war, and is therefore partly responsible for such atrocities. The same is true for World War II and all the other wars, including the most recent ones, where state power was used to trample on the civil liberties of American citizens (as always, in the name of "preserving" those same liberties for us).
> World War I also introduced socialistic central planning to America with the government policy of "war socialism," which included the nationalization of numerous industries and the dictating of prices and production quotas in many others. All price controls are a violation of the contract clause of the U.S. Constitution, which prohibits laws that abridge legal contracts, such as those between buyers and sellers or employers and employees. The contract clause, and much of the rest of the Constitution, was simply ignored during the World War I years and in the succeeding decades, especially during the Roosevelt administration. The Fed was instrumental in making this possible by financing such interventions.
> In his book,Takings, legal scholar Richard Epstein made the argument that both the New Deal and "Great Society" programs were all unconstitutional under the actual constitution despite the fact that generations of lawyers have created case law that essentially rewrites the document as being a toothless inhibitor of governmental powers. All of these government programs have been partly financed by the Fed.
> The original Constitution listed a very few enumerated powers of the federal government in Article 1, Section 8. All other powers were reserved for the people and the states under the Tenth Amendment, which Thomas Jefferson considered to be the cornerstone of the entire document. The creation of the Fed in 1913, along with the federal income tax in that same year, was one of the final nails in the coffin of the Jeffersonian constitution. Armed with the ability to engage in legalized counterfeiting, virtually all political power became centralized in Washington, D.C. All states became effective franchises of the central government who could easily be bribed or bullied into submission with federal grants or the threat of their withdrawal.
> Thanks to the Fed, American presidents can behave like world dictators, ordering the dropping of bombs anywhere and everywhere on a whim without any consent by Congress or anyone else. Thanks to the Fed, the majority of Americans are on some kind of governmental dole and are therefore neutered as opponents of the never-ending growth of government. They do not really have free speech rights, in other words. The same is true of all corporations that receive government subsidies. Or even if they do not, government has become so powerful that it can use its oppressive regulatory powers to ruin any business person who dares to speak up against the government too effectively. Thus, the Fed may not be responsible for "levying war" against the states, the definition of treason that is in the Constitution, but it has played a crucial role in the destruction of the system of federalism or states' rights that was established by the American founders. Perhaps Governor Perry can do a better job of articulating this point the next time he attempts to steal Congressman Ron Paul's thunder on the campaign trail.http://lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo212.html

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Re: Ron Paul 2012 Website Under Cyberattack

Paranoid?
---
not likely
Why is he attacked, ignored and not supported by his own party?
Because he always puts the USA's interests first.

On Aug 21, 9:16 am, Keith In Tampa <keithinta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe Ron Paul's  web site broke? I have seen several of my web sites have
> "issues" and I wasn't cyberattacked.....
>
> Have you ever noticed how Ron Paul supporters,  (and Ron Paul himself?)
> always claim that there are folks out to get him?  If its not that he is
> being ignored, then it is that he is being attacked.....Everyone's out to
> get Ron, even his own political Party?
>
> Paranoid?  Me thinks just a little!
>
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 6:22 AM, Bruce Majors <majors.br...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Leftist desperation?
>
> > **
>
> > *Ron Paul 2012 Website Under Cyberattack*
>
> > Dear JOHN,
>
> >  We thought it was bad when the media tried to ignore us to keep our
> > message under wraps.  But it just got worse.
>
> > Earlier this evening, a cyberattack was launched on our website – shutting
> > us down and robbing us of the last few hours of our money bomb.
>
> > Boy, the establishment is more desperate than I thought. They don't even
> > want our message to get out ON OUR OWN WEBSITE now!
>
> > We will not be silenced, and our money bomb will not be deterred.
>
> > <http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/6555100:9637993270:m:1:2...>
>
> > Before the attack, we were VERY close to our $1.5 million goal - now we're
> > at $1.49 million and counting.
>
> > We're still working on restoring full functionality to the online store,
> > but the rest of our website is back up and running.
>
> > And because of the time we lost toward reaching our goal, I'm announcing
> > now that we'll be leaving the ticker up until Noon pacific tomorrow and
> > extending the Ron Paul Birthday Money Bomb!
>
> > To further show the establishment that we're more determined than ever to
> > win this race, we're also extending the goal to $1.75 million!
>
> > If you are having trouble donating, please try again tomorrow.  Let me
> > assure you that your data is safe.
>
> > If you already donated, thank you. And perhaps you'll wake up inspired to
> > donate for Ron Paul 2012 one more time.
>
> > <http://paracom.paramountcommunication.com/ct/6555100:9637993270:m:1:2...>
>
> > Our message will not be stopped. Our Revolution is gaining ground every
> > day.
>
> > Thank you for your patience, and I hope you'll help us reach this new goal
> > for the Ron Paul Birthday Money Bomb!
>
> > For Liberty,
>
> > John Tate
> > Campaign Manager
> > *===========================================*
>
> >  Please visit the ultimate resource for defending liberty.
>
> > CLICK HERE:
> >http://targetfreedom.com/
> > AND  HERE:
> >http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/
>
> > If you get a message that says "address is not valid" then copy and paste
> > the address into the address bar.
>
> > This is the Most Extensive Collection of Freedom Videos<http://targetfreedom.com/videos-to-watch/best-collection-of-freedom-v...>Ever Compiled:
> > *
> >http://targetfreedom.com/videos-to-watch/best-collection-of-freedom-v...
> > *
>
> > John Perna
> > My email is:
> > JPerna at sc.rr.com
> > which, if not censored, will show as:
> >  JPe...@sc.rr.com
> > **
> > *Are you looking for a book about defending liberty?*
> > *Many rare and out of print books are still available. *
> > *Look here:*
> > *http://AmericanistBookStore.com/*<http://americanistbookstore.com/>
> > **
> > *Then look here:*
> >http://www.amazon.com/shops/jperna12
> > **
> >  *If you get a message that says "address is not valid" *
> > *then copy and paste the address into the address bar. *
> > **
> > *Please Watch these videos:  *
> > *REAL EYE OPENERS. DOWN LOAD THEM NOW BEFORE THEY DISAPPEAR.*
> > **
> > *Invisible Empire <http://targetfreedom.com/books/invisible-empire/>** -
> > full version NWO video An absolutely amazing expose' of the power brokers of
> > the world: No criminal tyrant left behind. *
> > *http://targetfreedom.com/books/invisible-empire/*<http://targetfreedom.com/books/invisible-empire/>
>
> >  *
> >http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/04/invisible-empi...
> > *<http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/04/invisible-empi...>
> >   * *
> > *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTrJQpgf6sE*<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTrJQpgf6sE>
> >  * *
> > **
> > * **Police State 4 The Rise of FEMA<http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/police-state-4/>
> > ** *
> > *http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/police-state-4/*<http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/police-state-4/>
>
> > *
> >http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/04/police-state-4...
> > *<http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/04/police-state-4...>
>
> > *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXBNRxUIZBM*<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXBNRxUIZBM>
> >  * *
> > **
> > *Camp FEMA: American Lockdown - FULL MOVIE<http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/camp-fema-ameri...>
> > *
> > *
> >http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/camp-fema-ameri...
> > *<http://targetfreedom.com/american-concentration-camps/camp-fema-ameri...>
>
> > **
> > *
> >http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/05/campfemaameric...
> > *<http://targetfreedom.typepad.com/targetfreedom/2010/05/campfemaameric...>
>
> > *http://www.blip.tv/file/3661748*<http://www.blip.tv/file/3661748>*
> > The Obama Deception HQ Full length version
> > **http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw*<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw>
>
> >  The American Dream
> > <http://targetfreedom.com/bills-in-congress/the-american-dream-a-very-...>-
> > a very important video
> > *http://tinyurl.com/USADream*<http://tinyurl.com/USADream>
> > or
> >http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=2E675DD8BFA6543A13A62539D55BC385
> > or
> >http://rtr.org/videos/2/8271/the-american-dream-animated-fil
> > or
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF4473uj7ro
>
> >  *-----------*
>
> > *A Day In The Park - coming soon*
>
> > *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6MKwW2nfQ*<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sE6MKwW2nfQ>
>
> > *------------*
> > *
> > Ron Paul 2012 - Can you Hear us Now?
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=384JykXEjC4
> > **------------*
>
> > *To be removed from my address book, *
> > *reply to this message with the word remove or unsubscribe in the subject
> > line. *
> > **
> >  *To be added to my address book, *
> > *reply to this message with the word add in the subject line. *
> > **
> >  *Send this to **JPerna at sc.rr.com**  *
> > *which, if not censored, will show as: *
> > * **JPe...@sc.rr.com* <JPe...@sc.rr.com>
>
> > V ~ For Victory
>
> >  --
> > Thanks for being part of "PoliticalForum" at Google Groups.
> > For options & help seehttp://groups.google.com/group/PoliticalForum
>
> > * Visit our other community athttp://www.PoliticalForum.com/
> > * It's active and moderated. Register and vote in our polls.
> > * Read the latest breaking news, and more.

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Re: What Explains America's Achievements of the Last 150 Years?

Today, our foreign competitors have recovered, sweatshops and slavery
have been abolished, and our natural resources are exhausted. Welcome
to the 21st century, unemployed America!
----
our? where are you from?

I've never been unemployed ... you?

On Aug 20, 5:45 pm, Ixtelan <drbuck...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> Wow. This one is turning up everywhere.
>
> In the 19th century, the United States benefited from the theft of
> other peoples' labor (slavery), took no care to preserve the air,
> water, or forests, put women and children into sweatshops, and enjoyed
> pacified neighbors on its northern and southern borders.
>
> In the 20th century, the U.S. Air Force blasted the crap out of our
> main economic competitors, Germany and Japan, and did precious little
> to help our allies, Britain and the USSR, to recover. If you have the
> only functioning industrial economy in the world, you can do pretty
> good for yourself.
>
> Today, our foreign competitors have recovered, sweatshops and slavery
> have been abolished, and our natural resources are exhausted. Welcome
> to the 21st century, unemployed America!
>
> On Aug 18, 1:59 pm, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The Economic Foundation of FreedomWhat Explains America's Achievements of the Last 150 Years?Howard Buffett
> > September 2003 • Volume: 53 • Issue: 8 •
> >http://www.thefreemanonline.org/featured/the-economic-foundation-of-f...

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Re: Is the Fed Treasonous?

I wish Mr. Lincoln would have let the south go.
---
he paid for his mistake the hard way
and that's the South to you

The United States would do very nicely today without it.
---
the South would be much better off without hypocritical yankees who
stick their nose up the rest of the planet's ass

remember ... freezing yankees out during the winter is still an option

On Aug 21, 3:51 pm, Ixtelan <drbuck...@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> States by themselves were incapable of putting down the southern
> insurrection, waging world wars, fixing the Depression, or solving the
> Civil Rights crisis.
>
> Personally, I wish Mr. Lincoln would have let the south go. The United
> States would do very nicely today without it.
>
> On Aug 21, 11:56 am, MJ <micha...@america.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is the Fed Treasonous?by Thomas J. DiLorenzo
> > The original Constitution listed a very few enumerated powers of the federal government in Article 1, Section 8. All other powers were reserved for the people and the states under the Tenth Amendment, which Thomas Jefferson considered to be the cornerstone of the entire document. The creation of the Fed in 1913, along with the federal income tax in that same year, was one of the

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