On 01/25/2011 07:45 PM, Tommy News wrote:
> Markie Mark-
>
> So you are saying that the VA is not government run health insurance?
>
> How about Medicare and Medicaid?
>
> SSI Disability, etc?
>
> Try again, Markie.
>
> On 1/25/11, THE ANNOINTED ONE<markmkahle@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tommy,
>>
>> Since the Merchant Marine was then, is now and will always be part of
>> the fleet reserve forces for the US Military (Navy) of course they and
>> the US Navy (also covered under the law you quote) had to carry
>> insurance and treat the wounded.
>>
>> The law covered ALL US flagged ships... and unlike the socialistic
>> programs you attempt to compare it to was the fore runner of the VA/
>> Military Hospital system.
>>
>> Try again.
>>
>> On Jan 24, 9:47 pm, Tommy News<tommysn...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Congress Passes Socialized Medicine and Mandates Health Insurance -In 1798
>>>
>>> The ink was barely dry on the PPACA when the first of many lawsuits to
>>> block the mandated health insurance provisions of the law was filed in
>>> a Florida District Court.
>>>
>>> The pleadings, in part, read -
>>>
>>> The Constitution nowhere authorizes the United States to mandate,
>>> either directly or under threat of penalty, that all citizens and
>>> legal residents have qualifying health care coverage.
>>>
>>> State of Florida, et al. vs. HHS
>>>
>>> It turns out, the Founding Fathers would beg to disagree.
>>>
>>> In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed -
>>> "An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen." The law
>>> authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital
>>> service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to
>>> purchase health care insurance.
>>>
>>> Keep in mind that the 5th Congress did not really need to struggle
>>> over the intentions of the drafters of the Constitutions in creating
>>> this Act as many of its members were the drafters of the Constitution.
>>>
>>> And when the Bill came to the desk of President John Adams for
>>> signature, I think it's safe to assume that the man in that chair had
>>> a pretty good grasp on what the framers had in mind.
>>>
>>> Here's how it happened.
>>>
>>> During the early years of our union, the nation's leaders realized
>>> that foreign trade would be essential to the young country's ability
>>> to create a viable economy. To make it work, they relied on the
>>> nation's private merchant ships – and the sailors that made them go –
>>> to be the instruments of this trade.
>>>
>>> The problem was that a merchant mariner's job was a difficult and
>>> dangerous undertaking in those days. Sailors were constantly hurting
>>> themselves, picking up weird tropical diseases, etc.
>>>
>>> The troublesome reductions in manpower caused by back strains, twisted
>>> ankles and strange diseases often left a ship's captain without enough
>>> sailors to get underway – a problem both bad for business and a strain
>>> on the nation's economy.
>>>
>>> But those were the days when members of Congress still used their
>>> collective heads to solve problems – not create them.
>>>
>>> Realizing that a healthy maritime workforce was essential to the
>>> ability of our private merchant ships to engage in foreign trade,
>>> Congress and the President resolved to do something about it.
>>>
>>> Enter "An Act for The Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen".
>>>
>>> I encourage you to read the law as, in those days, legislation was
>>> short, to the point and fairly easy to understand.
>>>
>>> The law did a number of fascinating things.
>>>
>>> First, it created the Marine Hospital Service, a series of hospitals
>>> built and operated by the federal government to treat injured and
>>> ailing privately employed sailors. This government provided healthcare
>>> service was to be paid for by a mandatory tax on the maritime sailors
>>> (a little more than 1% of a sailor's wages), the same to be withheld
>>> from a sailor's pay and turned over to the government by the ship's
>>> owner. The payment of this tax for health care was not optional. If a
>>> sailor wanted to work, he had to pay up.
>>>
>>> This is pretty much how it works today in the European nations that
>>> conduct socialized medical programs for its citizens – although 1% of
>>> wages doesn't quite cut it any longer.
>>>
>>> The law was not only the first time the United States created a
>>> socialized medical program (The Marine Hospital Service) but was also
>>> the first to mandate that privately employed citizens be legally
>>> required to make payments to pay for health care services. Upon
>>> passage of the law, ships were no longer permitted to sail in and out
>>> of our ports if the health care tax had not been collected by the ship
>>> owners and paid over to the government – thus the creation of the
>>> first payroll tax in our nation's history.
>>>
>>> When a sick or injured sailor needed medical assistance, the
>>> government would confirm that his payments had been collected and
>>> turned over by his employer and would then give the sailor a voucher
>>> entitling him to admission to the hospital where he would be treated
>>> for whatever ailed him.
>>>
>>> While a few of the healthcare facilities accepting the government
>>> voucher were privately operated, the majority of the treatment was
>>> given out at the federal maritime hospitals that were built and
>>> operated by the government in the nation's largest ports.
>>>
>>> As the nation grew and expanded, the system was also expanded to cover
>>> sailors working the private vessels sailing the Mississippi and Ohio
>>> rivers.
>>>
>>> The program eventually became the Public Health Service, a government
>>> operated health service that exists to this day under the supervision
>>> of the Surgeon General.
>>>
>>> So much for the claim that "The Constitution nowhere authorizes the
>>> United States to mandate, either directly or under threat of
>>> penalty…."
>>>
>>> As for Congress' understanding of the limits of the Constitution at
>>> the time the Act was passed, it is worth noting that Thomas Jefferson
>>> was the President of the Senate during the 5th Congress while Jonathan
>>> Dayton, the youngest man to sign the United States Constitution, was
>>> the Speaker of the House.
>>>
>>> While I'm sure a number of readers are scratching their heads in the
>>> effort to find the distinction between the circumstances of 1798 and
>>> today, I think you'll find it difficult.
>>>
>>> Yes, the law at that time required only merchant sailors to purchase
>>> health care coverage. Thus, one could argue that nobody was forcing
>>> anyone to become a merchant sailor and, therefore, they were not
>>> required to purchase health care coverage unless they chose to pursue
>>> a career at sea.
>>>
>>> However, this is no different than what we are looking at today.
>>>
>>> Each of us has the option to turn down employment that would require
>>> us to purchase private health insurance under the health care reform
>>> law.
>>>
>>> Would that be practical? Of course not – just as it would have been
>>> impractical for a man seeking employment as a merchant sailor in 1798
>>> to turn down a job on a ship because he would be required by law to
>>> purchase health care coverage.
>>>
>>> What's more, a constitutional challenge to the legality of mandated
>>> health care cannot exist based on the number of people who are
>>> required to purchase the coverage – it must necessarily be based on
>>> whether any American can be so required.
>>>
>>> Clearly, the nation's founders serving in the 5th Congress, and there
>>> were many of them, believed that mandated health insurance coverage
>>> was permitted within the limits established by our Constitution.
>>>
>>> The moral to the story is that the political right-wing has to stop
>>> pretending they have the blessings of the Founding Fathers as their
>>> excuse to oppose whatever this president has to offer.
>>>
>>> History makes it abundantly clear that they do not.
>>>
>>> UPDATE: January 21- Given the conversation and controversy this piece
>>> has engendered, Greg Sargent over at The Washington Post put the piece
>>> to the test. You might be interested in what Greg discovered in his
>>> article, "Newsflash: Founders favored government run health care."
>>>
>>> More:http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-socializ...
>>>
>>> --
>>> Together, we can change the world, one mind at a time.
>>> Have a great day,
>>> Tommy
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